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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-18-2010, 09:59 AM   #141
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

What is this data that is always spoken of? There is no data, no better data than making people work out and then see that they get PRs. There is nothing more sophisticated/scientific than this going on here. Its certainly no more authoritative than the experimentation that other coaches/athletes have done/and continue to do in their sport.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:00 AM   #142
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Jay Ashman View Post
not to defend Boyle because I hate his stance on "no more squats" but I don't think he is worried about his market share. Have you ever seen the list of people/athletes he has trained and worked with?

Your argument avoids all points and focuses on data, when that data can be manipulated to fit your needs.
Gosh, I'm sorry I'm focusing on data, Jay How is what I'm doing any different than 90% of the stuff used in an anti-CF manner?

Yeah, but none of the athletes that I admire/respect care about him. They know and care about CF in large measure though.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:09 AM   #143
Adam Acosta
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

Boyle is one of the top trainers for the NFL combine. Given that the NFL is the most popular sport in the United States, the athletes he works with are among the most admired and respected out there, at least in the United States. It's an honest point to say that if he criticizes CrossFit, whether or not he's coming at it from a misconception, he isn't doing it because he feels threatened by CrossFit. For all of its virtue, people training for draft combines and similar events are not ever going to use CrossFit. The markets are different.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:38 AM   #144
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Adam Acosta View Post
Boyle is one of the top trainers for the NFL combine. Given that the NFL is the most popular sport in the United States, the athletes he works with are among the most admired and respected out there, at least in the United States. It's an honest point to say that if he criticizes CrossFit, whether or not he's coming at it from a misconception, he isn't doing it because he feels threatened by CrossFit. For all of its virtue, people training for draft combines and similar events are not ever going to use CrossFit. The markets are different.
I disagree.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:57 AM   #145
Kyle Marston
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
I disagree.
Robert, may I suggest you review the CFJ article titled 'Judgement as Virtue' and also the comment section (sepcifically comment 23)?
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #146
Milan Mitrovich
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
see?

No data would be good enough for you.

Most S&C programs produced for the public utilize hyperbole.

Coach Glassman posts here, he doesn't need me to be his pawn.

Where's the data from Mr. McDonald or Mr Boyle or Mr Cook or Mr. Poliquin? or from the other haterade drinkers who are most likely afraid of CFs effect on their market share?

This is just working out, lots of things work. If CF isn't your cup of chowder, why stick around? I can't imagine it's comfortable disagreeing with everything you read.
I don't disagree with everything I read here, there are just some things that strain credulity, for instance: the constant calls for data by CF when responding to critics, while (to my knowledge) never presenting any data to support the CF claims.

It goes like this:
Critic: Where is the CF data?
CF: Where is your data? Case closed!

Just claiming to be 'scientific' and data-driven doesn't make it so. It is reasonable to ask that those who make the claims support them in some way.

I don't have any emotional connection to CF, as so many people do. There are things I like about it and things I don't.

If there was valid data presented that supported CF methodologies and countered the various critics, I (and every other reasonable person) would accept it.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:39 AM   #147
Darrell E. White
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

Somewhere, right here on this very message board, is a thread and a post that allows you to calculate your "area under the curve".

Right here! Can you imagine? Now, I've got a day job so I can't search right now, but if Mrs. Bingo's "Honey-do" list isn't too long tonight...
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:17 PM   #148
Milan Mitrovich
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

There are very reasonable criticisms of attempting to measure the 'area under the curve' in this very thread, specifically by Dmitri and Adam.

Does that procedure you reference address those? And if not, why not?
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:22 PM   #149
Alex Europa
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Milan Mitrovich View Post
Just claiming to be 'scientific' and data-driven doesn't make it so. It is reasonable to ask that those who make the claims support them in some way.
Data: E.C. Synkowski 21st of 174; Tayna Wagner 43rd of 174; Tommy Hackenbruck 101st of 194 (with about 3 weeks notice) at the 2010 Crash-Bs.

Data: 2 CrossFiters handily beat 2 pro football players in a CrossFit workout by 5 minutes. The only movement specific to CrossFit was 135-lbs thrusters.

These are just a few data points that I pulled up in about 5 minutes of searching, and there are MANY more out there. Is this "scientific" in a strict sense? No, but it IS data.

- Alex
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Last edited by Alex Europa : 02-18-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:30 PM   #150
Pat McElhone
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Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
Data: E.C. Synkowski 21st of 174; Tayna Wagner 43rd of 174; Tommy Hackenbruck 101st of 194 (with about 3 weeks notice) at the 2010 Crash-Bs.

Data: 2 CrossFiters handily beat 2 pro football players in a CrossFit workout by 5 minutes. The only movement specific to CrossFit was 135-lbs thrusters.

These are just a few data points that I pulled up in about 5 minutes of searching, and there are MANY more out there. Is this "scientific" in a strict sense? No, but it IS data.

- Alex
What is your interpretation of this data? CrossFit prepares athletes better then the NFL for CrossFit? Being really good at CF (2nd place CrossFit games), results in being very mediocre (101/194) at an ergonometer, not the sport of rowing, race?

My interpretation is CrossFit makes people better at CrossFit. Outside of CrossFit that means very little. Is this what the OP was asking? CrossFit is for getting people "fitter", not for preparing athletes to compete in their sport.
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