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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-19-2009, 12:47 PM   #51
Greg Privitera
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

We should row yup. Med ball slams are cool, too.

I think you do but make sure you understand that I'm not recommending Only open chain exercises.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:53 PM   #52
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

I'm serisouly asking what the differenc ein the adaptions between closed and open chain excersizes as they have been described in this thread.


I can see differences in loading between weights push up & benching and bent over rows & weighted body rows, but they don't have to do with what is moving.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:55 PM   #53
Mike Mallory
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
Wait, how does a weighted push cause a qualitatively different than a bench press?

"The same as how lat pulldowns don't correlate to their real world counterpart; the pullup"

If you are arguing that open and closed chain lifts produce qualitatively different adaptations, then shouldn't most athletes use the lat pull down? Most sports involve moving an external object (opponent or some kind of racket).
correct, but you'd of course use a kettlebell or medicine ball, etc.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #54
Daniel Higgins
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

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Yes, we can't always mimic nature, but we can do exercises that are much CLOSER to the carryover of sport. Why would you do exercises that don't address the neurological and muscular needs of the individual? Would you tell a sprinter to go do a bunch of cardio?

I made the example of the weighted pushup as a more functional exercise.
Actually you kind of disproved your point here. You argue against using the bench press, but promote the weighted pushup. From a "functional" standpoint, when will you ever be placed on your hands and toes and need to go down then push up? Maybe if you're on your stomach and the person/object is on your back (wierd) it could be useful. But if you're on your back or just simply pushing horizontally then the benching motion is quite beneficial. Moreso than a pushup and with less strain on the wrists as they're not cocked at 90 degrees. Granted in real world scenarios your wrists probably will get cocked, but no sense hurting them when you train.

How many strong dudes are there as a result of heavy benching? Now how many people are just as strong as a result of weighted pushups? Not saying they're a bad idea, but not anyway comparable to the bench press.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:06 PM   #55
Mike Mallory
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

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Actually you kind of disproved your point here. You argue against using the bench press, but promote the weighted pushup. From a "functional" standpoint, when will you ever be placed on your hands and toes and need to go down then push up? Maybe if you're on your stomach and the person/object is on your back (wierd) it could be useful. But if you're on your back or just simply pushing horizontally then the benching motion is quite beneficial. Moreso than a pushup and with less strain on the wrists as they're not cocked at 90 degrees. Granted in real world scenarios your wrists probably will get cocked, but no sense hurting them when you train.

How many strong dudes are there as a result of heavy benching? Now how many people are just as strong as a result of weighted pushups? Not saying they're a bad idea, but not anyway comparable to the bench press.
How do you get up from a face down position? Do some athletes have to get up from a down position fast? Could this possibly translate to stronger burpee?

of course theres not a lot of people that are strong from weighted pushups.....not many people do 'em!
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:23 PM   #56
Ben Walker
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

This is just silly... I've trained with national team athletes in sports such as Wrestling, sprinting, bobsledding, high jump, heptathlon, snowboarding, etc. top university football and hockey players, and I am pretty sure every one of them had bench press in at least one of it's many variations included in their weight training programs, whether it be a One Arm DB BP, or the BB BP... They may have occasionally subbed something else for it to mix things up, but it was still an essential part of any strength training program for high level athletes that I've come across...

To argue that bench press is not a functional or fundamental exercise for a weight training program is silly and quite counterintuitive..
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:31 PM   #57
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most contact sports (football, hockey, lacrosse maybe) use the following for tests of strength: Squat, Bench, Power Clean? Those seem to be pretty good indicators of not only strength but explosive power (force production). That translates pretty closely into how well you can hit people. Only better way to gauge it is by actually hitting people.

Buutttt this is way off topic from the OP. If your concern is bothering people for a spot/handoff on the bench, is this more important than your strength gains??
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:37 PM   #58
Justin Lascek
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

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of course theres not a lot of people that are strong from weighted pushups.....not many people do 'em!
This is because they don't make anybody strong. Yes, the more of the body moving through space makes for more functionality, but you are suggesting that the strength gained from bench pressing, or from barbell training for that matter, is not transferable when it is the most general physical adaptation available.

This kind of stuff is painful to read. You guys don't realize that you're feeding copious amounts of material to the people that think you're stupid.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:08 PM   #59
Mike Mallory
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

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Originally Posted by Ben Walker View Post
This is just silly... I've trained with national team athletes in sports such as Wrestling, sprinting, bobsledding, high jump, heptathlon, snowboarding, etc. top university football and hockey players, and I am pretty sure every one of them had bench press in at least one of it's many variations included in their weight training programs, whether it be a One Arm DB BP, or the BB BP... They may have occasionally subbed something else for it to mix things up, but it was still an essential part of any strength training program for high level athletes that I've come across...

To argue that bench press is not a functional or fundamental exercise for a weight training program is silly and quite counterintuitive..
I work with a lot of those athletes too.......And I'm constantly amazed at the stupidity of their team trainers. I've worked with enough college football players with ruined shoulders to seriously question their training methodology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Higgins View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most contact sports (football, hockey, lacrosse maybe) use the following for tests of strength: Squat, Bench, Power Clean? Those seem to be pretty good indicators of not only strength but explosive power (force production). That translates pretty closely into how well you can hit people. Only better way to gauge it is by actually hitting people.
Squat and clean are great indicators.......Bench is not. Boxers know you need a strong base of support to put a lot of force into a hit, and bench doesn't train people to use their arms WHILE stabilizing their base, big difference.

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This is because they don't make anybody strong. This kind of stuff is painful to read. You guys don't realize that you're feeding copious amounts of material to the people that think you're stupid.
Obviously, I'm pretty passionate about getting the bench out of the weight room. Barbells will forever stay in my routines.

yeah, weighted pushes don't make anyone strong
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:20 PM   #60
Paul Sousa
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Re: Dropping the bench press from SS?

I wonder how much better Bill Kazmaier would have done in the WSM contests had he only done weighted push ups instead of wasting all that time on the silly bench.
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