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Old 02-11-2009, 03:52 AM   #1
Chris Ross
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fatigue questions

Hi

I have 2 questions regarding fatigue.

1) I presently train BJJ 2-3 times per week, do 2 strength days per week and also do an indoor rockclimbing session for about 2 hours once a week.

The strength routine is SS based:
workout A
3x5 squats (plus 2 ramped sets before)
1x5 DLs (plus 3 ramped sets before)
3x5 press (plus 2 ramped sets before)

workout B
3x5 squats (plus 2 ramped sets before)
3x5 weighted chin (plus 1 bw set before)
3x5 press (plus 2 ramped sets before)

Whilst I really enjoy this volume of exercise each week I am finding that I am always tired, not mentally, but definately at the muscular level. Just general feelings of lethargy and aches in my muscles and joints. It's getting to the point where I am having to miss BJJ classes cause I simply don't feel like I have the energy to particpate without getting mauled.

Can anyone offer any advice on how I can alleviate this issue and stick with doing the things I love to do? Should I just put up with it and expect my body to adapt over time? My sleep is good (8-9hrs), nutrition is quite good.
Age: 30 Height: 6' Weight: 84kg

2) The other question contains a little bit of adult content, so you have been warned! Basically I find that after having sex my fatigue is MUCH worse for the next few days, on top of the fatigue mentioned in my first question. I've heard of fighters/footballers etc being told not to have sex before competition but is there a genuine physiological explanation for the fatigue and any way to get around it?

Its getting to the point where I have to weigh up 'time with the wife' vs my hobbies, cause I just don't have the energy to do everything! Is this something that can be solved with nutrition perhaps?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:59 AM   #2
Brian Bedell
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Re: fatigue questions

You are working out either 6 or 7 days per week, that is too much. I think this is obvious.

Decrease your strength day volumes. Switch from straight sets to ascending sets, do fewer reps, or fewer sets, or a combo. Cut a good deal out, and then build back up depending on how your body feels.

As far as I know there is no real science behind not having sex before competition.

You say in one sentence that your nutrition is "quite good" and then later ask if the problem is nutrition. Make up your mind; is it good or not? Is it zone and paleo? If not, work on that.
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:18 AM   #3
Steven Low
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Re: fatigue questions

1. Considering that SS is a program BY ITSELF... and you're trying to add BJJ & rock climbing on top of it. It's no wonder you're going to burn out.

Cut back on the strength work either by volume (reducing 3x5 -> 2x5) and/or eliminate a day totally. See if that helps. If not, then cut out some more.

Eat more, sleep more, eliminate stress. Fix diet if it's poor.


2. There are studies on pubmed that look at sex before competition and stuff. Testosterone IS lower; however, it seems to not really affect performance. Some guys prefer it, some guys don't. It doesn't really matter.

If you find out one of the two works for you then do it.
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Bodyweight Article, Overcoming Gravity Book
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:31 AM   #4
David Stout
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Re: fatigue questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ross View Post
I presently train BJJ 2-3 times per week, do 2 strength days per week and also do an indoor rockclimbing session for about 2 hours once a week.
1. On what days are you doing each of these?
2. Are you using sets across or sets ascending for your strength days?
3. What's your BJJ level, and does your class include: 1) conditioning 2) rolling after every class
4. What is your priority and goal?

Last edited by David Stout : 02-11-2009 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Added Questions
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:09 AM   #5
Ed Haywood
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Re: fatigue questions

Fatique is a big red flag for overtraining.

Read the "Sets Across vs Ascending Sets" and "Crossfit Strength Bias" threads, and the CFSB article in the journal. I think you'll find some of their insights to be very helpful. In particular, they concluded that SS-style 3x5 sets across are too much for anyone other than a novice doing a dedicated SS program as designed. In the CFSB trials, they found that most guys didn't progress on sets across, but did progress when switched to ascending sets and 'ratcheted' between 3x3 and 3x5.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:59 AM   #6
Donald Lee
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Re: fatigue questions

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Originally Posted by Ed Haywood View Post
Fatique is a big red flag for overtraining.

Read the "Sets Across vs Ascending Sets" and "CrossFit Strength Bias" threads, and the CFSB article in the journal. I think you'll find some of their insights to be very helpful. In particular, they concluded that SS-style 3x5 sets across are too much for anyone other than a novice doing a dedicated SS program as designed. In the CFSB trials, they found that most guys didn't progress on sets across, but did progress when switched to ascending sets and 'ratcheted' between 3x3 and 3x5.
You are overgeneralizing. Everything works if you implement it correctly.

Chris,

The easiest way to recover without changing your training is to eat A LOT more. Other than that, you should probably deload a bit on your lifts. Then, ramp up very slowly. You could also lower the volume to 3 x 3 or 2 x 5 as Steven suggested. With all the BJJ and rock climbing, you can't expect to make quick linear gains. You could try adding weight every 2 workouts instead of every workout.

As far as the sex goes, you should try taking some ZMA before you go to bed. It'll replenish the zinc you've lost in your semen.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:16 PM   #7
Jhaysonn Pathak
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Re: fatigue questions

How happy are you?

Does working out make you happy? Why do you want to work out? To look good? perform? Does your 'laundry list' of things you need to accomplish before you die dissapear when you're exercising? Or some other reason like that. How nice does unwavering, worry free peace sound to you?

Just my two cents with people I've met, experiences I've had over the years. I'm not old (younger than you), but I tend to think on these parts of life a lot and I feel like there are different reasons to your fatigue than diet/overtraining. Maybe a bit too much pressure to perform in your life?
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:21 AM   #8
Chris Ross
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Re: fatigue questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stout View Post
1. On what days are you doing each of these?
2. Are you using sets across or sets ascending for your strength days?
3. What's your BJJ level, and does your class include: 1) conditioning 2) rolling after every class
4. What is your priority and goal?
Firstly can I say thanks very much to everyone for giving their opinions. Much appreciated and very helpful. I will definately consider each of the points raised.

To answer David's questions:
1) Every activity is done on a different day, so yes its usually a 5-6 day week of exercise.
2) Sets across for strength. Interestingly after doing this for about 8 weeks I've hit a definate ceiling with all my lifts and some have even trended down slightly
3) Been doing BJJ for 5 years on and off. Blue belt. About 30 mins+ of rolling or competative drilling per class.
4) My priority is to improve my BJJ and also improve my strength. I've never really tried a pure strenght routine before and want to see where I can get to. I think of the BJJ as my metcon so don't bother with 'cardio' days as such, then the SS is my strength days (usually followed by a good stretch session for 20 mins or so).

I will try the zinc thing, mostly through food rather through supplements though, so thanks for that recommendation Donald.

Brian, my diet is basically traditional Meditteranean. 4 serves fruit, 4-5 vege (all fresh), fish 5x wk, some chicken, red meat maybe once a month, beans, olive oil, wholewheat bread and cereals, dairy daily, low salt, low sugar, I only drink water. Based on my heritage and the Seven nations study.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:27 AM   #9
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: fatigue questions

If you're always tired you need some combination of more rest, more food, and less training. From what you've posted, my suggestion would be less training. Avoiding BJJ classes because of fatigue even though you say BJJ is your top priority? Something's wrong there.

Katherine
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:09 AM   #10
Donald Lee
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Re: fatigue questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ross View Post
Firstly can I say thanks very much to everyone for giving their opinions. Much appreciated and very helpful. I will definately consider each of the points raised.

To answer David's questions:
1) Every activity is done on a different day, so yes its usually a 5-6 day week of exercise.
2) Sets across for strength. Interestingly after doing this for about 8 weeks I've hit a definate ceiling with all my lifts and some have even trended down slightly
3) Been doing BJJ for 5 years on and off. Blue belt. About 30 mins+ of rolling or competative drilling per class.
4) My priority is to improve my BJJ and also improve my strength. I've never really tried a pure strenght routine before and want to see where I can get to. I think of the BJJ as my metcon so don't bother with 'cardio' days as such, then the SS is my strength days (usually followed by a good stretch session for 20 mins or so).

I will try the zinc thing, mostly through food rather through supplements though, so thanks for that recommendation Donald.

Brian, my diet is basically traditional Meditteranean. 4 serves fruit, 4-5 vege (all fresh), fish 5x wk, some chicken, red meat maybe once a month, beans, olive oil, wholewheat bread and cereals, dairy daily, low salt, low sugar, I only drink water. Based on my heritage and the Seven nations study.
I recommended a zinc supplement for you to take at night before going to bed post-sex, and zinc is important for producing testosterone. You lose about 3-5 g of zinc when you ejaculate.

http://www.truthorfables.net/zinc_brain.htm (WFS):

Quote:
Dr. David Horrobin, an M.D. and Ph.D. from Oxford University, states:

"The amount of zinc in semen is such that one ejaculation may get rid of all the zinc that can be absorbed from the intestines in one day. This has a number of consequences. Unless the amount lost is replaced by an increased dietary intake, repeated ejaculation may lead to a real zinc deficiency with various problems developing, including impotence.
Also, you might look into Pavel's Power to the People or Ross Enamait's Infinite Intensity. Athletes generally aren't meant to train high volume in-season. There are two big approaches to strength training: training to failure or near failure a few times (2-3) per week or training frequently at high intensities while avoiding fatigue. For athletes, the second approach tends to work better because it's easier to recover from.

Anyways, play around with what's already been said.
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