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Old 08-06-2008, 08:32 PM   #1
Kevin Kaeating
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controversial of course

well here i am again, questioning the zone and crossfit methods. now i want to be clear. i believe there is nothing better for health and muscle endurance than the zone diet plus crossfit but...

ive used myself as a lab rat on this for 3 years now trying many mnay combinations of diet and workout and ive noticed a few trends.
1. prominent crossfit icons (wont mention names) have been getting much smaller.
2. my max effort lifts decreased on the zone diet at 28 blocks a day 4x fat.
3. i cant keep weight on using the zone diet, but feel good.(read similar results of people in another post)
4. zone contradicts starting strength diet by rippetoe as far as milk and insulin.

now the question for enthusiasts like myself. if crossfit is geared towards all aspects of performance and health, what am i missing for max effort strength? or can there there no be no balance...evidence supporting any of these is easily found.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:39 PM   #2
Gabriel desGarennes
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Re: controversial of course

I am by no means the person to answer your question. I'm a relative noob to crossfit, but i have also experimented with both the eyeball zone, the measured zone and the gallon of milk a day SS.

Measured zone had me cutting too much weight. ( I know i could scale it better but i didn't)

The Gallon of milk a day made me gain too much chub.

Currently what works for me that i love is this. I eat pretty much as an eyeball Zoner. What i mean is i don't count blocks at ALL. I don't check my calories, and am not terribly specific on ratios. But i try and make sure that every time i eat i eat about the right portions of the right stuff. NO grains other than steel cut oats, fruits and veggies for carbs, Low fat proteins ( other than whole milk!! ), And lots of avocados, olive/grapeseed oil, and TONS of almonds.

I don't drink the gallon of milk a day but i consume about 1/4 a day. This is the only way i personally have been able to make consistent gains and still maintain my abs.

I have see-sawed way too much eating too little and stalling on gains, and eating too much and getting chubbers, i'm glad i've settled into what i like.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:44 PM   #3
Joe Bernard
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Re: controversial of course

First off, what is your height, weight, and age? 28 blocks at 4x fat is alot of food, I find it hard to believe you are losing weight. If the weight keeps coming off, just keep upping the fat until you stop losing weight.

Also, there really is no SS diet, it's just drink a gallon of milk on top of what you normally eat in a day. Plus, SS and zone are two very different things. SS is all about putting on alot of muscle along with some fat whereas zone is about maintaining your optimal weight for your body, which in most cases requires losing weight to reach the optimal level.

There most certaintly is a balance between all the aspects of performance and health, just look at the elite CFers. They are pretty strong and also have a high level of muscle endurance. Heck some of them upgrade the WODs by adding more weight. So bottom line, eat more and your ME lifts will increase.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:51 PM   #4
Kevin Kaeating
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Re: controversial of course

ive heard the up the food and fat blocks about 4 times as a reply ,thats how i got to those numbers , no starkyness intended ..but that doesnt work for me, ive read the zone book 5 times and know the diet very well. is my performance really getting better in all aspects though? well no, muscle endurance yes, power lifts..no. ive also read this happening to many other people with that same reply and it never works..thanks anyway though.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:58 PM   #5
Elliot Fuller
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Re: controversial of course

I think you answered most of your own questions, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kaeating View Post
well here i am again, questioning the zone and crossfit methods.
followed immediately by...

Quote:
i believe there is nothing better for health and muscle endurance than the zone diet plus crossfit but...
That's what CrossFit is.

Quote:
1. prominent crossfit icons (wont mention names) have been getting much smaller.
Just about everyone has an ideal body weight at which they are most efficient. For these supposed "icons," odds are they bulked up to a body weight that was not efficient or sustainable. It may have increased their lifts, but that's ultimately not the main goal of CrossFit.

Quote:
2. my max effort lifts decreased on the zone diet at 28 blocks a day 4x fat.
There are many potential causes of this; diet is only one of them.

Quote:
3. i cant keep weight on using the zone diet, but feel good.(read similar results of people in another post)
Then you're not eating enough...

Quote:
4. zone contradicts starting strength diet by rippetoe as far as milk and insulin.
Starting Strength usually prescribes a gallon of milk in addition to your standard diet (Zone or not). Raw/whole milk is already Zoned. How is this a contradiction, other than breaking the "no more than 5 blocks per meal" rule?

CrossFit is pretty much about making your body as functional as possible. This is not the same as being able to run a 4 minute mile and squat 500. It's about being as efficient as possible. There are ways to build max effort lifts using CrossFit, but if lifting is your goal, then you need to focus on it more. CrossFit is about not focusing or specializing on any given element.

You can't have the best of every world. What's that one quote from coach? "We can do what you can do as good as you; we can do what we can do better than you; and we can do what neither of us can do better than you." Or something to that effect.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:11 PM   #6
Caitlin McDonald
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Re: controversial of course

Nice pic, Elliot!!
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:11 PM   #7
Kevin Kaeating
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Re: controversial of course

very eye opening thank you elliot maybe im looking for answers in the wrong place?// yes.. but the contradiction i meant to a gallon of milk is the effects on insulin and the no dairy in the zone books, not the block prescription. the quote from coach "we can do what you do better than you"...i disagree with if i was a powerlifter.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:15 PM   #8
Kevin Kaeating
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Re: controversial of course

sorry couldnt remember lol, and the paragraph about "each person has an ideal body weight to be most efficient" well, that goes for alot of physical movements in crossfit but is not efficient for powerlifting.
so i guess the conclusion to all is this..the zone diet is the best prescription for crossfit, but crossfit is what it is and its not powerlifting therefore you cant have it all, train for a specific goal and eat as the pros do in that category,,i get it, i just didnt want to face it...

Last edited by Kevin Kaeating : 08-06-2008 at 09:16 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:21 PM   #9
Elliot Fuller
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Re: controversial of course

That's much more concise than I could have put it, but I think you're mostly correct. You can still excel at lifting with CrossFit. Search around for the hybrid programs, or MEBB (Max Effort Black Box). But if lifting is a serious goal, then you need to start specializing.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:40 AM   #10
Matthew Green
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Re: controversial of course

This may help with your milk question http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/bjon/ab...195628!8091!-1 W/F/S
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