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Old 10-06-2009, 11:06 AM   #1
Jason Ashman
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Is it time to tighten the screws??

I found this on the Strength Mill site. (w/f/s) A search couldn't find it posted on here (please dump this if it is), so I figured in the interest of discussion, I'd post it.

I've no opinion on most of the topics/opinions/politics in there, but the idea that the level of coaching is being diluted is one that keeps popping up in my travels, both online and off.

So, in the interests of discussion, I figured I'd pose this question to Crossfit's masses:

Is it time for HQ to consider testing for the L1, or creating two L1s, one for and intro to Crossfit, and another for coaching/affiliating with Crossfit, or some such??

Discuss.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #2
Greg Privitera
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Ashman View Post
I found this on the Strength Mill site. (w/f/s) A search couldn't find it posted on here (please dump this if it is), so I figured in the interest of discussion, I'd post it.

I've no opinion on most of the topics/opinions/politics in there, but the idea that the level of coaching is being diluted is one that keeps popping up in my travels, both online and off.

So, in the interests of discussion, I figured I'd pose this question to Crossfit's masses:

Is it time for HQ to consider testing for the L1, or creating two L1s, one for and intro to Crossfit, and another for coaching/affiliating with Crossfit, or some such??

Discuss.

Definitely. Part of the beauty of CrossFit is the ability to scale workouts, fix improper movement patterns, and use variations of movements that best suit the individual.

This is something that needs to happen.
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:46 PM   #3
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by Jason Ashman View Post
Is it time for HQ to consider testing for the L1, or creating two L1s, one for and intro to Crossfit, and another for coaching/affiliating with Crossfit, or some such??
I think the idea that a Level 1 Cert, all by itself, is adequate preparation for someone with no other coaching experience is ludicrous. HQ does itself no favors by allowing people with no other credentials to represent Crossfit to the masses.

IMO, a Level 2 should be the minimum credential for affiliation. (Or maybe a Level 1 with some level of non-Crossfit experience/certification.) Of course, doing that would dramatically raise the barriers to entry.

Katherine
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
IMO, a Level 2 should be the minimum credential for affiliation. (Or maybe a Level 1 with some level of non-Crossfit experience/certification.) Of course, doing that would dramatically raise the barriers to entry.
Raising the barriers isn't always a bad thing, as long as it is still doable with a reasonable effort.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:10 PM   #5
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by Wayne Riddle View Post
Raising the barriers isn't always a bad thing, as long as it is still doable with a reasonable effort.
Oh I agree. But raising the barriers would reduce the growth rate, both in number of affiliates and possibly in overall numbers of Crossfitters. It's up to HQ to decide where they want to make the quality vs. quantity tradeoff. For the time being, they seem to be taking a "cream rises to the top" approach: certify lots of people, and let the market cull the herd as needed.

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Old 10-06-2009, 03:13 PM   #6
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Oh I agree. But raising the barriers would reduce the growth rate, both in number of affiliates and possibly in overall numbers of Crossfitters. It's up to HQ to decide where they want to make the quality vs. quantity tradeoff. For the time being, they seem to be taking a "cream rises to the top" approach: certify lots of people, and let the market cull the herd as needed.
True, all depends on what the goal of the people running Crossfit think. Myself while I do think the cream will rise to the top you want to make sure you get out the sour milk too. You'll never have 100% perfect affiliates but you can make sure the good/bad ratio is weighted heavily to the good.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:31 PM   #7
David Meverden
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

This is being discussed in the "Running a Crossfit Affiliate" section under "Huge Decline in Quality."

I'll cross post (sorry) a couple of lines that I think are worth discussing:

Is it wrong for people to open boxes for the purpose of being more-or-less a communal garage gym? In lieu of the fact that CrossFit is perfectly comfortable having people do this stuff by themselves at home, what's wrong with a box opened by eager, fairly novice, coaches that just want to expose more people to CrossFit? As long as they don't present themselves as something they aren't, and are careful with new people, I don't want to push those people (and the people who would be exposed to CrossFit because of them) out of the buisness.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:54 PM   #8
Tom Seryak
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

A couple nuances:

1) the level 2 cert proves competency in the ability to teach a small group of students at different levels the 9 core crossfit movements and explain the crossfit philosophy and methods. It does not prove one's ability to train (as in the ability to program appropriately, provide appropriate prescription substitutions, scalings, etc.) This can only be proved in the affiliate gym and quality coaching, programming, etc. will be recognized when it is present.

2) the fee for the level 2 cert is $1k. for many start-up affiliates, this is not a priority. I don't need a certificate to prove to myself or my clients that I am a quality coach. If i suck as a coach, there will be high turnover. I also have other "non-crossfit" credentials that prove my competency (master's degree, cscs, nasm, 7 years of experience, etc.)

for these reasons, i don't see HQ ever making level 2 a requirement for affiliation. consumers that are committed to fitness will do their homework and make their decisions appropriately.

fwiw, some of my clients that have zero credentials have a much better clue about training than so many "credentialed" trainers that I have worked with in the past.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:10 PM   #9
Jason Ashman
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
This is being discussed in the "Running a Crossfit Affiliate" section under "Huge Decline in Quality."

I'll cross post (sorry) a couple of lines that I think are worth discussing:
I saw that after I'd posted this, but the posts there for the most part aren't what I'm looking for. From my end, I'm more concerned with answering the question of than I am with hearing opinions about the article, which is where the general direction of that thread seems to be headed. That may change, but right now this thread appears to be on a different tack.

And no apology necessary on the cross-post; If its relevant to the questions, I don't care where it comes from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Seryak View Post

2) the fee for the level 2 cert is $1k. for many start-up affiliates, this is not a priority. I don't need a certificate to prove to myself or my clients that I am a quality coach. If i suck as a coach, there will be high turnover. I also have other "non-crossfit" credentials that prove my competency (master's degree, cscs, nasm, 7 years of experience, etc.)
I agree with you completely. The question, however, then would become something along the lines of "Even if you have all of these outside credentials, if you're teaching Crossfit, and the brand is worthless because people have destroyed the brand's reputation with poor coaching across the community, do your outside credentials matter so long as you're coaching Crossfit??

If the general public considers Crossfit to simply be another busted exercise fad that's been watered down to nothing, and you're teaching it, it follows that, in the eyes of the general public, everything else you have is basically worthless to everyone but your core clientele so long as Crossfit is your primary methodology and is what you're peddling, right?? You'd still be the guy teaching the dangerous/worthless/over-hyped/low-quality/etc fad program."

More fodder for discussion.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:45 AM   #10
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Is it time to tighten the screws??

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Originally Posted by Jason Ashman View Post
I agree with you completely. The question, however, then would become something along the lines of "Even if you have all of these outside credentials, if you're teaching Crossfit, and the brand is worthless because people have destroyed the brand's reputation with poor coaching across the community, do your outside credentials matter so long as you're coaching Crossfit??
If the number of "bad" coaches out out there exceed a certain number compared to the good coaches (bad doesn't have to be a majority in this case) then that is a very valid concern. True for any business.
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