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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-10-2011, 11:29 AM   #1
Jonathan Vechet
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Max Effort and Form

A lot, if not all, people say that when you go for a max effort lift, your form will suffer. Or something along the lines of "If your form is perfect, it's not your max." During regular strength training all good coaches/trainers will emphasize good form for the lifts. But during a max effort attempt poor form seems to be forgivable.

Why so?
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:26 PM   #2
Sean Dunston
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Re: Max Effort and Form

It's not that "poor form" is acceptable in such a case, it's expected that your form will be less than perfect because you are struggling under a significant amount of weight.
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Old 04-10-2011, 01:02 PM   #3
Veronica Carpenter
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Re: Max Effort and Form

and at the limit of your strength, your weaknesses show more.
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Old 04-10-2011, 01:26 PM   #4
John Kaupp
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Re: Max Effort and Form

There is also a point at which if form keeps getting worse and worse a coach needs to know when to cut their athlete off. Poor form is also attributed to bad habits or weaknesses like Veronica mentioned. You will not rise to the occasion, you will fall back onto your training. If you let yourself get sloppy or compensate in certain ways when you are tired in training, it will show in your max attempts. Find the video of that 1015lb deadlift. Pretty good form on a heavy lift.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:54 PM   #5
John Welbourn
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Re: Max Effort and Form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Vechet View Post
A lot, if not all, people say that when you go for a max effort lift, your form will suffer. Or something along the lines of "If your form is perfect, it's not your max." During regular strength training all good coaches/trainers will emphasize good form for the lifts. But during a max effort attempt poor form seems to be forgivable.

Why so?
Who says that?

Because the only people I can imagine saying that are people who don't lift heavy weights. If you are accustomed to lifting 90-100% on your lifts, this is simply not true. Being good at lifting heavy weights is a skill. Imagine working up to a heavy 1-3 RM on most days and your technique is off...you will be in traction by weeks end.

Take a look at some of the strongest guys in the world, whether it be gear or raw PL'n or Oly lifting. Their technique is damn near perfect. Imagine rounding your back with a 1000 lbs on it. Dead and broken.

What you are seeing is a lot of people who are generally not very strong and not accustomed to lifting heavy weights. And when things get tough then find the path of least resistance.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:05 PM   #6
Jonathan Vechet
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Re: Max Effort and Form

I don't have any quotes off the top of my head, but I've seen it said here and other forums.
It just bothered me that people constantly emphasize good form on lifts, but seem to be more lenient when the numbers go up.
I personally have reset weight because I was unsatisfied with my form. Yeah, I could probably pull my goal weight, but I would also like to be able to walk afterward.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:16 PM   #7
Terry Gibbs
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Re: Max Effort and Form

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Welbourn View Post
Who says that?

Because the only people I can imagine saying that are people who don't lift heavy weights. If you are accustomed to lifting 90-100% on your lifts, this is simply not true. Being good at lifting heavy weights is a skill. Imagine working up to a heavy 1-3 RM on most days and your technique is off...you will be in traction by weeks end.

Take a look at some of the strongest guys in the world, whether it be gear or raw PL'n or Oly lifting. Their technique is damn near perfect. Imagine rounding your back with a 1000 lbs on it. Dead and broken.

What you are seeing is a lot of people who are generally not very strong and not accustomed to lifting heavy weights. And when things get tough then find the path of least resistance.
what he said..

saw Jerry Jones (90kg class) dead in Hawaii in 1980, Jerry had hurt his back back in around 1970. Jerry pulled 700+ with a perfect arched lower back, not a hint of bend in the back anywhere. If it moved off the floor, it was a perfect lift. Top Ol guys either make it or they don't. They don't have a grey area where their technique goes south between 80-100% effort.

Train with bad technique develops bad technique. Train correct technique you develop the strength and power to lift with correct technique.

train form lifts with high reps and technique becomes very hard to maintain, reasons why are for another day, when I have a few hours to spare.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:43 PM   #8
Veronica Carpenter
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Re: Max Effort and Form

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Welbourn View Post
Who says that?

Because the only people I can imagine saying that are people who don't lift heavy weights. If you are accustomed to lifting 90-100% on your lifts, this is simply not true. Being good at lifting heavy weights is a skill. Imagine working up to a heavy 1-3 RM on most days and your technique is off...you will be in traction by weeks end.

Take a look at some of the strongest guys in the world, whether it be gear or raw PL'n or Oly lifting. Their technique is damn near perfect. Imagine rounding your back with a 1000 lbs on it. Dead and broken.

What you are seeing is a lot of people who are generally not very strong and not accustomed to lifting heavy weights. And when things get tough then find the path of least resistance.
Your average gymrat/crossfitter will lose form as he/she approaches ME lifts or AMRAP attempts. I'm a 20 veteran olifter and my form (and that of many others) still degrades when I attempt a max effort snatches, c&j's, front/back squats. And I've seen plenty of vids of crazy strong legit powerlifters that dead w/rounded backs. Not saying it's the preferred/ideal, just that it happens.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:57 PM   #9
Veronica Carpenter
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Re: Max Effort and Form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Gibbs View Post
Train with bad technique develops bad technique. Train correct technique you develop the strength and power to lift with correct technique.

train form lifts with high reps and technique becomes very hard to maintain, reasons why are for another day, when I have a few hours to spare.
Your first statement is spot on. But, not only is technique hard to maintain at high reps, it also will begin to degrade at a max effort lift as well. If you train at a level where you can maintain correct form and doing assisantance exercises focusing on whatever weaknesses you have - it should help your ME attempts.
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