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Old 06-25-2009, 01:59 PM   #11
Michelle Leone
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

I had the same thing happen last Monday while doing a heavy deadlift. My doctor is giving the surrounding area injections to relieve some inflammation next week. I have been through this before. Take it easy no load, but you can still limitless wods. Your body will tell you when its time. So, listen to it and heal.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:15 PM   #12
Anthony Rubino
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

Im on the steroid pills and visinting the pain clinic for shots next week. What do you mean "limitless wods"? Do you mean all the body weight wod's?
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:39 PM   #13
Greg Gartland
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

I am recovering from an L5-S1 herniation. Here's what I was told:
no bike
no rowing
build up the core/TVA
low weight deadlifts (time to lose the ego, deadlift the bar with perfect form while your core is "on")
balance board work
do lots of mckenzie press ups
keep your back in extension
slowly add rotation back
drink lots of water

To me it's insane to continue crossfit (or even worry about it) when you have an injury that is fixable with some medium term effort but that could be severely exacerbated by full bore exercise.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:21 AM   #14
Bryan Stell
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Thumbs up Re: L4-5 Herniation

I am an exercise science major who recently herniated l5-s1 and L5-L4. It was a long recovery but I did so without any drugs or injections. I bought the books by Mckenzie and Stuart Mcgill. If you are serious about achieving serious performance again I'd go with the Mcgill Book Elite Back Fitness and Performance.

It's not the end of the world. I trained around this injury avoiding compression and flexion. I didn't lift anything above 100 pounds and actually dropped my fran from 430 to 315. What helped me most was...

A.) not sitting. Sitting is horrible for the spine when I do sit in the car or at work I now sit with a lumbar support. I have one stationary at work and one portable for the car and on the go. Also, I don't like the idea of biking right away, neither would Stuart McGill. If it is a recumbant bike that'd be better, biking puts your spine in a nearly fully flexed position which may wreak havoc on your discs.

B.) Avoiding Flexion (especially early in the morning)

C.) Always being mindful of my posture/lumbar curve. Maintain it.

D.) Walking, nothing is better than a brisk walk for the discs.

E.) I bought a reverse hyperextension from NYBarbells.com. Loius Simmons pioneered this machine to heal his herniated discs.

F.) Lay in the Mckenzie position opposed to sitting down whenver possible.


As for exercises. You can make your own little Crossfit style workouts with these exercises highly recommended by Dr. Stuart Mcgill

Side Bridges
Bird Dogs
Crunches (with lumbar support)
Progressing to Turkish Get- ups
Pullups are good
Practice your stability, put weights over head, start light progress to heavier. I am now cleaning and Jerking around 200. Which was about where I was before the injury.

Best of luck with the injury and get back to me with any questions/concerns.
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:07 AM   #15
Lydia O'Brien
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

Listen to the doctor. 6 weeks is better then 12 or 16 weeks. I had to have Artificial disc replacement surgery on those same levels and basically heals like a broken bone. It's tough and heart breaking now but is better in the long run.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:06 AM   #16
Rene Forestier
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Stell View Post
I am an exercise science major who recently herniated l5-s1 and L5-L4. It was a long recovery but I did so without any drugs or injections. I bought the books by Mckenzie and Stuart Mcgill. If you are serious about achieving serious performance again I'd go with the Mcgill Book Elite Back Fitness and Performance.

It's not the end of the world. I trained around this injury avoiding compression and flexion. I didn't lift anything above 100 pounds and actually dropped my fran from 430 to 315. What helped me most was...

A.) not sitting. Sitting is horrible for the spine when I do sit in the car or at work I now sit with a lumbar support. I have one stationary at work and one portable for the car and on the go. Also, I don't like the idea of biking right away, neither would Stuart McGill. If it is a recumbant bike that'd be better, biking puts your spine in a nearly fully flexed position which may wreak havoc on your discs.

B.) Avoiding Flexion (especially early in the morning)

C.) Always being mindful of my posture/lumbar curve. Maintain it.

D.) Walking, nothing is better than a brisk walk for the discs.

E.) I bought a reverse hyperextension from NYBarbells.com. Loius Simmons pioneered this machine to heal his herniated discs.

F.) Lay in the Mckenzie position opposed to sitting down whenver possible.


As for exercises. You can make your own little Crossfit style workouts with these exercises highly recommended by Dr. Stuart Mcgill

Side Bridges
Bird Dogs
Crunches (with lumbar support)
Progressing to Turkish Get- ups
Pullups are good
Practice your stability, put weights over head, start light progress to heavier. I am now cleaning and Jerking around 200. Which was about where I was before the injury.

Best of luck with the injury and get back to me with any questions/concerns.
Awesome advice!

I have L4/5, L5/S1 issues as well, and this sounds exactly what I've been doing (except the reverse hypers). I love doing sit-ups with my ABMAT (GHD sit-ups seem to bother my back). I also try to rise from the down position with a flat back, which I think is what McGill advises.

I don't see the point of stopping weighted squats and deads...these are important for LIFE. I understand one may not be attempting PRs of 600 lbs, but heavy'ish (far below previous 1RM) with PERFECT form is mandatory IMO...if it feels BETTER after the excercise, then keep doing it!...this is pretty much what RIP says...people with lumbar injuries feel better with prudent use of squats and deads.

I'm intrigued by the use of the reverse hyper...what is the big difference b/w that and Back Extensions?

Last edited by Rene Forestier : 06-26-2009 at 08:10 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:23 PM   #17
Warren C Ellison
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

What's the McKenzie postion?

Pics or links would be nice.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:32 PM   #18
Christine Reinhart
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

I totally agree with Bryan! I'm a chiropractic student and not only have I read the McGill book from front to back, but I've also had the good fortune to hear him speak (he knows his stuff!). McGill provides sound advice that is backed up by many years of peer-reviewed research. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that those of us with healthy backs (knock on wood), should try to avoid high numbers of repetitive flexion/extension movements, in an effort to keep our spines and discs in good working condition.

Although the study was done using an animal model, there is new evidence suggesting that extension exercises/movements can be helpful in rehabilitating herniated discs. See: Scannell & McGill (2009). Disc prolapse: Evidence of reversal with repeated extension. Spine, 34 (4), 344-350. It may not be advised for every case, but it makes me happy to know that there are non-invasive (i.e., non-surgical, non-pharmaceutical) means for treating disc problems. Best of luck with your recovery!

Christine
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:33 PM   #19
Mike Mallory
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine Reinhart View Post
Although the study was done using an animal model, there is new evidence suggesting that extension exercises/movements can be helpful in rehabilitating herniated discs. See: Scannell & McGill (2009). Disc prolapse: Evidence of reversal with repeated extension. Spine, 34 (4), 344-350.
Admittedly, I find it very strange that a lot of schools are 'just now' doing research on this type of thing......Mckenzie's protocols have been around for a good 50 years!

Do they teach any of McGill's or Mckenzie's research at your Chiro school christine? Or is this just your own thing? Just curious
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:08 PM   #20
Christine Reinhart
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Re: L4-5 Herniation

Mike, I agree that the research is way behind as compared to the theories and treatment protocols that have been around for a long time, and have indeed been effective for helping patients. Despite their effectiveness, it seems that the majority of manual therapies (chiropractic, physical therapy, massage, etc.) are just in the beginning stages of developing the scientific evidence to support and explain the mechanisms that underlie how and why they work so well! It's an exciting time to be a part of these health care careers.
I just finished my first year of chiropractic school and we were introduced to McGill's work in our biomechanics class. I was particularly interested and went a step further to purchase his book and do a bit of self-directed learning. We haven't been introduced to McKenzie's work, but it may be in the curriculum for me next year. If not, then I may have to look into it myself.
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