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Old 01-03-2006, 09:10 PM   #1
Tony Young
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I looked through the posts and if this question is in there I didn't see it. I apologize for any redundancy.

When I figure my daily zone block requirement do I use my current weight and BMI or the one I'd like to have? I'm 5'10" about 175# (down from 220 a year and a half ago, thank you) but would like to fill out to about 190 or so 10-12% BF.

While I carried a lot of fat at a heavier weight I felt more solid and stable. Firmer on the ground. Slower, yes, but there must be a balance between absolute strength and body weight for speed. My deadlifts were much higher, too. 395 for reps as opposed to 365 for singles now. Some things are just easier with more mass, I think.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-04-2006, 04:29 AM   #2
Jesse Woody
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There has been some talk about optimum weight for mixed-mode workouts like Crossfit. Coach has mentioned something along the lines of an average sized guy getting somewhere between 180-195 (that is my discrepency, as I don't remember the exact weight) for optimum performance. From what I remember this does exactly what you're mentioning; makes weighted exercises more powerful while retaining the ability to fly through bodyweight gymnastics movements.

I would say it's probably a pretty individual thing, so I would look at your relative strength/performance and tweak as needed until you get to the point where you're performing as well as you'd like in all areas. Keep in mind that relatively, your deadlift seems to have gone up, as you're doing more than double-bodyweight now, as opposed to around 1.75% bodyweight for reps before.
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:46 AM   #3
Tony Young
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Jesse,
If you'd point me toward that thread that'd be great.

The question is how do I put that weight on within the zone framework? I know we add fat to increase available energy but what else? I'm more than happy to eat more, I just need to know where to focus. More total blocks, perhaps?

Nicole? Bueller?

Good point about the DL percentage. I feel better.
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Old 01-04-2006, 12:50 PM   #4
Robert Wolf
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Tony-

The tinkering we have done necessitated droping the fat blocks and upping the total Zone blocks. So if you were at say 16 blocks and 5x fat you would dial back to ~2x fat and ratchet total blocks to at least 20. Cruise with that for 2 weeks and see if your lifts and scale weight are up. If not add 2 more blocks. Repeat until you are up to desired weight you may need to back off total blocks 2-3. Then tinker with increasing fat to maintain new BW and performance levels.


Greg Everett followed the 16 block 5x fat recomendations and was an athletic but fairly gaunt 165-170lbs. He tinkered things as mentioned above and is now up to a lean 183 and thouroughly kicking my *** at everything.

Baseline Zone is wholey inadequate to add significant muscle. One will almost certainly need more protien and carbs. Maintainance is another issue , as we have seen several folks come to CF and the Zone already toting some serious muscle but were able to maintain that level.

These recomendations seems to square with some heavy hitters like John Berardi and Charles Poliquin.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:39 PM   #5
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I second Robb's recommendations. I can stay uber lean no problem, but I hang around 170, which, at 5'11" is far from ideal in my mind (I've been everywhere from about 165 - 200 lbs in the last 3-4 years).

I'd also recommend taking your time putting the weight on - rushing it seems to do no good in terms of either body composition or performance. So like Robb suggests, working in 2-week periods and monitoring progress closely (performance, energy and even body measurements to make sure you're not just doughing out).

I've also found that I function far better at lower amounts of fat - i.e. I now run on 20 blocks at 1-2X fat and have been able to keep my weight up and bodyfat down here, whereas dropping blocks and increasing fat just caused me to lose weight rapidly.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:40 PM   #6
Larry Lindenman
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Excellent post Robb. Big point, if you don't know EXACTLY what you eat, it's kind of hard to manipulate individual elements like fat, protein, and carbs. This is one reason measuring and using the block system works much better the hand eye method.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:56 PM   #7
Robert Wolf
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Thanks Larry and yes, a methodical approach will tend to yield much better results than the eyeball method...although the eyeball can make some pretty good progress.
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:35 PM   #8
Frank Menendez
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Excellent thread, I want to make sure I get the idea here.

For example, I can maintain my weight of 165 or so with 3100 calories. After modifying my diet and making all my blocks 5, and some of my fat meals 3X, I still end up with 2400 calories total. That to me is a HUGE drop of calories from my maintenance and I can't imagine not losing total weight (fat and muscle). Personally, I am happy at 170lbs.

To gain this weight, do you guys eat more than 5 blocks a meal? Or again, is 5 the maximum allowed blocks to stay within the zone and we are back at boosting fat?

Sorry, I'm trying to understand all this...
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Old 01-04-2006, 06:04 PM   #9
Jesse Woody
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I would try the zone as is for a bit before modifying anything. I thought the same thing you are thinking. I am 172, and my maintenance calories are supposed to be in the 3200 range. It took a bit of faith to drop down to 17-18 blocks (using the .8 multiplier), which, if you figured according to macronutrient breakdown would be around 1700 calories (needless to say, that doesn't take into account the macronutrient breakdown of each food, such as the carbs and protein in peanuts, as it considers them just a fat). I figured that I would wither away. needless to say, this is not the case, as I've actually gained a bit of lean body mass without any tweaking beyond the added fat (3x, which would bring my caculated calories up to around 2600)

All of this and my performance has improved significantly.

(Message edited by gear on January 04, 2006)
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Old 01-04-2006, 06:14 PM   #10
Tony Young
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Robb,
Thanks for the recommendations. That's just what I was looking for.
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