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Old 08-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #41
Camille Lore
 
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

Let's please keep this discussion courteous and respectful of each other in keeping with the site rules and the AUP.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:19 PM   #42
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Simon Nainby View Post
This is exactly the type of statement I am disputing. With all due respect that statement displays how little you know about the sport and the coaching process. It is very rare for novices to be injured especially when they are being coached properly.
Do you really mean that?

It's not a controllable environment, the rugby pitch. Barbells, rowing machines, et al don't have a mind of their own. Opponents do. Multiply the effects by some combination of fatigue and momentum, and people get hurt.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:28 PM   #43
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
I would prefer that you quit picking fights and then act above it all.

You go out of your way to attack whole a community about concepts you admittedly don't understand, then you feel insulted when you are called on your incompetence.

amazing.

Can you refute what I am saying or not?

Right now you have nothing to stand on other than lofty proclamations and nothing to hide behind than a computer screen. Put some clothes on.

Why do you "think" these lifts take years to learn?

So who were the first students of these lifts?

Who were the first teachers?

How did the first students learn without the teachers?

What experience do you bring to the table?

With such vast experience, how is it that you can't grasp the concept?

Respect comes when it is earned. You try coming to the table with things other than confusion and condemnation for our community, you might find some. Until then... I'll be your huckle-berry.
Joey,
Do you have dates for your CF blunt instrument/CF Enforcer cert yet. I would pay $600 for that. (I mean that with all respect)
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:35 PM   #44
Simon Nainby
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
Do you really mean that?

It's not a controllable environment, the rugby pitch. Barbells, rowing machines, et al don't have a mind of their own. Opponents do. Multiply the effects by some combination of fatigue and momentum, and people get hurt.
Andrew I certainly do make all my points with due respect. I have no idea what your exposure to rugby is and you may have many different experiences from me which I am always willing to listen and learn from. As you will see below I agree that people can and do get injured playing rugby. When they are learning though it is a controlled environment (controlled by the coach) that means, in my experience that injuries are very rare. I just do not believe safe is ineffective.

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Originally Posted by Anthony Bainbridge View Post
Simon, you're nitpicking semantics. Argue that the example was poorly chosen and poorly written and that's fine. But you can't argue that rugby is perfectly safe. If it was perfectly safe there would be no running, no jumping, no throwing, and definitely no contact. Put it another way ... do you sign an injury waiver when you join a team? What about when you join a chess team?

Now ... no one is saying that rugby coaches throw safety out the window. No one is saying you are guaranteed to get injured. There are certainly things you can do to increase safety, but it will never be perfectly safe simply because of the activities involved, even at the novice level.
Anthony I totally agree with the points you make here. Early on I said that nothing is 100% safe and I am not arguing rugby is perfectly safe. Take perfectly out of the sentence and you are left with "safe is ineffective". I do not believe this to be true for all the reasons I have stated.

The example was rugby, a sport I have a fair amount of experience of that was contrary to the statement. I felt it was worth pointing this out.

This thread has clearly taken a turn for the worse in an area I am not debating.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:15 AM   #45
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

"Take perfectly out of the sentence and you are left with "safe is ineffective"."

THe "perfectly" is the crux of the arguement. If someone goes to a fitness coach and they ask "I am out of shape and I would like to be in good shape, if I train with you will I get injured" and the coach says "No you will not get injured", then what ever that coach has them do will not be effective. If the coach instead says "Injury is a part of physical training, but we will do the utmost to teach you proper movement to avoid injury and to reduce it's severity when it happens and to train sensibly when you are injured to help you heal as quickly as possible" than that is a coach that understands the risk vs reward concept of physical activity.

You woul;d also want to stay away from the "You'll only get injured if you are weak and soft. Mercy is for the weak".
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:23 AM   #46
Steven Matheson
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
Respect comes when it is earned. You try coming to the table with things other than confusion and condemnation for our community, you might find some. Until then... I'll be your huckle-berry.
Nevermind.

Last edited by Steven Matheson : 08-07-2009 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:54 AM   #47
Derek Franks
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Simon Nainby View Post
Anthony I totally agree with the points you make here. Early on I said that nothing is 100% safe and I am not arguing rugby is perfectly safe. Take perfectly out of the sentence and you are left with "safe is ineffective". I do not believe this to be true for all the reasons I have stated.

Oh really? Then why did you title your thread "Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective"?
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #48
Gary Maholm
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

I think this is simple. I have no idea how someone could not comprehend it.

Lets have a rugby match in 30 days.
We'll both take 20 newbs today and begin preparation.
We will assume that both of us are licensed/accredited/respected rugby coaches.

The only difference in our methods is that i ramp them up with 4 times the intensity.

Day 29 i have 2-3 people that are sidelined and you have 20 bodies.

We play. I will defeat you.

Extend this to 60 days...i will beat you...beyond that..it becomes pretty close to "specialization" and you might begin to defeat my team. Which is natural.

And that's the end. If you can't come to grips with that theorycraft then you really haven't spent enough time understanding the crossfit methodology. Lacking those fundamentals is why you are getting so much resistance.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #49
Simon Nainby
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Derek Franks View Post
Oh really? Then why did you title your thread "Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective"?
Because the original statement was "perfectly safe is perfectly ineffective" which I disagree with. I think safe is not ineffective therefore perfectly safe is not perfectly ineffective. Perfectly safe and perfectly ineffective do not exist though do they?
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:15 AM   #50
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

So you can teach rugby, CF or any other sport with zero injuries over a long time time frame?
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