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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-06-2009, 09:21 AM   #31
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Steven Matheson View Post
I can't think of another single sport where a "Coach" is allowed to "teach" grown adults complicated weight bearing moves (that in their own right take YEARS to learn) after only paying $1000 and taking a two-day seminar where passing is 100% guaranteed.

I'm lucky - my affiliate is staffed with great coaches. Clearly not all affiliates are created equal.
Statistics would dictate that there do exist incompetent coaches in every major sport in the world. CF is not immune.

But as an aside, how long does it take someone to recognize a lift as "dangerous". I would argue, since the bulk of our movements are universal motor recruitment patterns, most humans could spot "DANGEROUS" form fairly quickly.

How well you can teach the movements is another story, and I think when you say "YEARS to learn" you mean "Years to perfect"..Which I feel are two completely different sides of the coin.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:22 AM   #32
Anthony Bainbridge
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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This is what I am getting at - rugby is coached and played the way it is because the safe techniques are the most effective so safe does not mean ineffective.
If rugby was played with safety in mind it would be basketball. Or tennis. Come on - you have your feathers ruffled because they used a rugby example and not hockey, or football, or whatever. The bottom line is that if you push your fitness to the edge you have to be open to the possibility of bumps and bruises. THAT is the message they are trying to relay.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:26 AM   #33
Simon Nainby
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Anthony Bainbridge View Post
If rugby was played with safety in mind it would be basketball. Or tennis. Come on - you have your feathers ruffled because they used a rugby example and not hockey, or football, or whatever. The bottom line is that if you push your fitness to the edge you have to be open to the possibility of bumps and bruises. THAT is the message they are trying to relay.
Not at all I just disagree with the idea that safe is not effective. Also to point out that teaching novices is/should not be pushing to the edge so you should not expect injuries.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:29 AM   #34
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

Also to add rugby is played with safety in mind which is why so many of the laws make dangerous play illegal.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:36 AM   #35
Marcel Zwinger
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

Simon, you argue very theoretically or even hypothetically here...
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:45 AM   #36
Anthony Bainbridge
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

Simon, you're nitpicking semantics. Argue that the example was poorly chosen and poorly written and that's fine. But you can't argue that rugby is perfectly safe. If it was perfectly safe there would be no running, no jumping, no throwing, and definitely no contact. Put it another way ... do you sign an injury waiver when you join a team? What about when you join a chess team?

Now ... no one is saying that rugby coaches throw safety out the window. No one is saying you are guaranteed to get injured. There are certainly things you can do to increase safety, but it will never be perfectly safe simply because of the activities involved, even at the novice level.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:40 PM   #37
Joey Powell
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Steven Matheson View Post
I can't think of another single sport where a "Coach" is allowed to "teach" grown adults complicated weight bearing moves (that in their own right take YEARS to learn) after only paying $1000 and taking a two-day seminar where passing is 100% guaranteed.
Exactly...that is why Crossfit kicks ***. Learning to teach safely and mastering are two different things... By your own admission and logic a Home-Ec teacher needs to be Martha Stewart. Get over yourself. These moves are not difficult if you understand them.

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I'm lucky - my affiliate is staffed with great coaches. Clearly not all affiliates are created equal.
Good for you, but they must not be that thorough because no one explained this to you...or you would not recognize the difference anyway. Who is going under the bus today... you or your trainers??

"Hey, I can't let my kid play football this year, because Tom Landry isn't the Coach..."

Seriously??

Plus you Put " ", around "teach" as if Clean and Jerks are hard to teach or are that complicated...yet billions of people do them everyday with bags of sand, groceries, luggage, weights.

Obviously you, should not be teaching those lifts because you fail to recognize they are natural movements, as well you have been suckered into silly notions by mediocre coaches that are good marketers who suggest otherwise because they can't teach them either and don't want to loose face.

By they way...have you actually been to a cert or are you running fast and loose at the pie-hole looking for confrontation??


Heard this same crap from an "affiliate" owner (actually a Kettlebell guy) argue that "his" customers were not into Olympic lifts or barbells because they were intimidated.... Actually, he forgot the email he sent me that stated he did not understand the barbell lifts and was uncomfortable with them...oops.

Of course this was back in the day when you could affiliate without a cert.

I have several female clients over 60... guess what they do on the days "Grace" pops up... um... that would be "Grace"

NO INJURIES...NONE!!!


Check your preconceived notions at the door and quit looking for a fight. You are outmatched with your anecdotal notions by actual, in the fight, instructors. You are outmatched...beat it. Come back when you have an ounce of experience (productive) under your belt.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:52 PM   #38
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

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Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
Exactly...that is why Crossfit kicks ***. Learning to teach safely and mastering are two different things... By your own admission and logic a Home-Ec teacher needs to be Martha Stewart. Get over yourself. These moves are not difficult if you understand them.



Good for you, but they must not be that thorough because no one explained this to you...or you would not recognize the difference anyway. Who is going under the bus today... you or your trainers??

"Hey, I can't let my kid play football this year, because Tom Landry isn't the Coach..."

Seriously??

Plus you Put " ", around "teach" as if Clean and Jerks are hard to teach or are that complicated...yet billions of people do them everyday with bags of sand, groceries, luggage, weights.

Obviously you, should not be teaching those lifts because you fail to recognize they are natural movements, as well you have been suckered into silly notions by mediocre coaches that are good marketers who suggest otherwise because they can't teach them either and don't want to loose face.

By they way...have you actually been to a cert or are you running fast and loose at the pie-hole looking for confrontation??

Check your preconceived notions at the door and quit looking for a fight. You are outmatched with your anecdotal notions by actual, in the fight, instructors. You are outmatched...beat it. Come back when you have an ounce of experience (productive) under your belt.
I made a statement and I stand by it.

In the future, I'd prefer that you step away from the anger towards me and maybe learn to type (speak) to complete strangers with a little bit more respect. I have plenty of experience, productive and otherwise, to teach you that myself.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:14 PM   #39
Joey Powell
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

I would prefer that you quit picking fights and then act above it all.

You go out of your way to attack whole a community about concepts you admittedly don't understand, then you feel insulted when you are called on your incompetence.

amazing.

Can you refute what I am saying or not?

Right now you have nothing to stand on other than lofty proclamations and nothing to hide behind than a computer screen. Put some clothes on.

Why do you "think" these lifts take years to learn?

So who were the first students of these lifts?

Who were the first teachers?

How did the first students learn without the teachers?

What experience do you bring to the table?

With such vast experience, how is it that you can't grasp the concept?

Respect comes when it is earned. You try coming to the table with things other than confusion and condemnation for our community, you might find some. Until then... I'll be your huckle-berry.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:22 PM   #40
Joey Powell
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Re: Perfectly Safe isn't perfectly ineffective

wow, and the more I dig through your recent posts...the more of this I see.

You have an axe to grind??
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