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Old 05-07-2009, 09:48 AM   #21
James Napier
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Re: Grains

I wonder if any changes in intestinal flora over the past 10k years may have helped us to better digest the grains. Wouldn't it make sense that they could evolve much faster than us or that we didn't have as efficient flora previously?
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:52 AM   #22
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Grains

It's not so much the ability to digest them, it's the insulin response they cause.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:56 AM   #23
Renee Lee
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Re: Grains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Hobbs View Post
I think people are thinking about genes for grain consumption as an all-or-nothing deal: either everyone has the gene(s) or everyone doesn't.

But that's not really how genetics works. When a new beneficial gene arises through random mutation it will slowly increase it's total % in the gene pool over time as those that have it have more reproductive success.

So it's only been 10,000 years. Not enough time for gene(s) for grain consumption to completely take over the gene pool. But certainly enough time for them to become more prevalent.

And so that could explain why we constantly have this back and forth on the boards of people who feel fine on grains and those that feel like crap
which is likely why some concentrations of people (ethnic/racial/whatever) are more grain tolerant than others
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:43 AM   #24
Rob Forgione
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Re: Grains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Hobbs View Post
I think people are thinking about genes for grain consumption as an all-or-nothing deal: either everyone has the gene(s) or everyone doesn't.

But that's not really how genetics works. When a new beneficial gene arises through random mutation it will slowly increase it's total % in the gene pool over time as those that have it have more reproductive success.

So it's only been 10,000 years. Not enough time for gene(s) for grain consumption to completely take over the gene pool. But certainly enough time for them to become more prevalent.

And so that could explain why we constantly have this back and forth on the boards of people who feel fine on grains and those that feel like crap

good post, i think that is frequently overlooked in threads like this one.

ps, not to hijack, but do you goto school in boston renee? im over at BC.

anyway yeah good post

Last edited by Rob Forgione : 05-07-2009 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:58 AM   #25
Kevin Thomas
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Re: Grains

Bo,

That's an interesting article that you cite.

I'll quote another line from that article:

"In most western, industrialized countries, these vitamin shortcomings are generally of little or no consequence, since the average diet is not excessively dependent upon grains . . ."

and in the conclusion

"Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein lies their strength."

Another point about evolution that I want to point out. There are fewer human cells in a human than non-human cells. Many of these non-human cells reside in the GI tract. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that these non-human organisms can be selected for and/or evolve in a relatively short time frame - even less than a single human generation. The changes that occur in the composition of these organisms can have a huge impact in the human's ability to utilize various food sources. Edit: Giving credit. I just noticed that James made this same point.

All that said, I'll say again I have no problem with the paleo diet. I'm sure it works for lots of people (whatever "works" means for those individuals). The evolutionary evidence cited though is not strong, and continuing to cite it only undermines the other more specific arguments for the diet. I don't have much interest in continuing this debate because the answer that grains can be a part of a healthy diet is obvious even in the pro-paleo article you cited.

Last edited by Kevin Thomas : 05-07-2009 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:05 PM   #26
Rene Forestier
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Re: Grains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
It's not so much the ability to digest them, it's the insulin response they cause.
Issues with grains are not restricted to the negative insulin response...there is also the issue of phytic acid.

Unless the grains are prepared properly ( which healthy traditional people did along with eating grains sparingly) phytic acid is present...a so-called anti-nutrient.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:31 PM   #27
Greg Privitera
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Re: Grains

You guys seen this?

w/f/s, Lamarcke might've had a point

We might have been too quick to jump on that Darwinian bandwagon...

And as a general response to the thread, I agree with Laura's post early on:

Try it and find out.

The only things that seem definitive about staying healthy:

Exercise intensely and carry at least a fair amount of muscle
Don't eat so many calories that you become fat
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