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Old 09-28-2010, 11:12 AM   #1
Rebecca Roth
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The right balance for fat loss?

I've seen a lot of posts on similar/related topics but can't seem to find a definitive answer for fat loss in the overweight or any answer that seems to have any considerable merits over other possibilities.
From a basic perspective I'm not looking for a crash diet, am hard loser (I've heard of hard gainers, so why not), and have probably 50 lbs to lose. I feel like significant fat loss is what is going to get me the fastest performance improvement as a newish CFer. I have been Paleo for most of this year already and had seen losses of about 1-2 lbs per month, not as significant as it really should be, but at least consistent loss. Pretty much as soon as I started CFing at max effort my loss not only stalled but I've now gained back the past 2 months of loss; this is pretty much normal unfortunately, with any serious focused exercise regime I've tried to implement in the past couple years it has resulted in almost immediate weight gain of 10+ lbs.

So the question is, there seem to be many opinions regarding the proper balance mostly in terms of minor fat loss for optimization of athletic bodies, what I want to know is what is ideal for significant fat loss in overweight bodies without utilizing an unrealistic crash diet? I've seen almost conflicting ideas the ideal fat loss may come from either a low fat diet or a low carb/keto diet.
For each how low is low enough? In the case of fat it seems to be 10-15%, which to me looks basically impossible without ending up very high carb. In the case of Keto I've seen a huge range calling anywhere from <40 to <20 % as being "low carb" but I'm not sure where ketosis actually hits (looks like 4fatx1carb, that seems like an impossible ratio to hit). Should I be actively measuring for ketosis or is that more for athletes and I should just count on it happening at a certain level?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:22 AM   #2
Lisa Jeansonne Johnston
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

I am certainly no expert, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I started CF 7 weeks ago, and paleo/zone 6 weeks ago. I am pretty strict paleo/zone during the work week, and on weekends I try to stay paleo. (of course I have had some cheat moments, along with beer and wine *can't watch the Saints play without beer*).
I started at 171 # (5'8" tall) and yesterday I weighed 161. Initially I dropped 7 pounds quickly then it started to stall. In the last 2 weeks I have seen an acceleration of fat loss. I have also discovered that 2 weeks ago I was in ketosis. I didn't feel any different, I just decided to check. I think this has accelerated my fat loss. I think if you stick to paleo/zone with your cheat days being paleo and skewing to more protein/fat on those days, you will work your way up to ketosis. It was not my goal when starting this to get to ketosis, just to improve my nutrition.
In the past when I have actively pursued ketosis and hit it, I would feel weak. Not so now. I attribute it to having occurred gradually.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:22 AM   #3
Brian Bedell
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Could you re-state your question a little more coherently please.

It sounds like you may also need some additional basic nutrition knowledge, I recommend that you go over to Lyle McDonald's site and read many of his various articles on the topic to get yourself acquainted.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #4
Geoff Sallee
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Eat less, cheat less. Low carb Paleo will work best (<50g carbs/day). Add in some intermittent fasting if you're having trouble eating less on a regular eating schedule.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #5
Rebecca Roth
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bedell View Post
Could you re-state your question a little more coherently please.

It sounds like you may also need some additional basic nutrition knowledge, I recommend that you go over to Lyle McDonald's site and read many of his various articles on the topic to get yourself acquainted.
I have actually spent hours at his site, and he seems to primarily advocate two methods for considerable fat loss, ketogenic diet or PSMF (which is a crash diet). I've already mentioned that I am interested in figuring out the potential of keto dieting as the method for my weight loss and that I am not interested in crash dieting.

I'm saying I've searched quite a bit of conflicting information on the web about where the optimal balance of fat/carb/protein lies for weight loss, since I trust most people here to know what they are talking about more than the average website, I thought I would ask for opinions. So I'm not really sure what was unclear in my question or what basic nutritional knowledge I am lacking here, the fact that I'm even familiar with things like paleo and ketogenic dieting puts me ahead of average.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:57 AM   #6
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

What are you eating now? Could you post a log for a few days? If you're only losing 1-2 pounds per month on a Paleo diet, it's likely that either (a) you're not eating as strictly Paleo as you think, (b) you're just plain eating too much, or (c) both.

If exercise causes you to immediately gain weight, it's probably due to some combination of:
* improved hydration (which isn't "real" weight, it just means you were dehydrated before)
* exercise makes you hungry (meaning you need to continue to watch your intake for both quantity and quality -- exercise drinks in particular are often mostly sugar)
* muscle growth (which should be embraced, not avoided)

Katherine
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:58 AM   #7
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Paleo, Zone, and Paleo/Zone have worked for many, many folks. Pick one & go.

And stop evaluating your progress by looking at the scale. Your scale has no clue whatsoever what your body composition is.

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Old 09-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #8
Brian Bedell
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca Roth View Post
I have actually spent hours at his site, and he seems to primarily advocate two methods for considerable fat loss, ketogenic diet or PSMF (which is a crash diet). I've already mentioned that I am interested in figuring out the potential of keto dieting as the method for my weight loss and that I am not interested in crash dieting.

I'm saying I've searched quite a bit of conflicting information on the web about where the optimal balance of fat/carb/protein lies for weight loss, since I trust most people here to know what they are talking about more than the average website, I thought I would ask for opinions. So I'm not really sure what was unclear in my question or what basic nutritional knowledge I am lacking here, the fact that I'm even familiar with things like paleo and ketogenic dieting puts me ahead of average.
So, I'll presume you are looking for the optimal balance of macronutrients. Good question, i don't know what it is for you. You will have to try different ratios and see how you respond. That is why you are getting different responses, b/c everyone is different. The lyle McD/Mark Sisson/CW would show that under 50g of carbs is keto, under 100g is excellent fat loss, and then up. Plenty of info. on that in their respective sites. But again, you will have to see what works for YOU.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:34 PM   #9
Rebecca Roth
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
What are you eating now? Could you post a log for a few days? If you're only losing 1-2 pounds per month on a Paleo diet, it's likely that either (a) you're not eating as strictly Paleo as you think, (b) you're just plain eating too much, or (c) both.
Not sure if this link will work, but I logged pretty religiously over the past month+, just took a week off logging because I feel like I didn't need to to keep things clean anymore now I'm more concerned with getting the right balance. While I am certainly not 100% paleo by any stretch, I would put myself about 85-90%. This is the last day I logged.
http://www.fitday.com/fitness/Public...Month=8&Day=16 (wfs)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
And stop evaluating your progress by looking at the scale. Your scale has no clue whatsoever what your body composition is.
I definitely am with you, Its a habit/obsession that I absolutely hate, and I've begun to have a much more well adjusted view of it in the past year or so. I do not have an end goal weight, nor is weight loss any part of my goals or something I'm using to measure my success in taking up crossfit (though I expect FAT loss will certainly be a side effect of doing cf and paleo), I am simply feeling the amount of excess fat could be a potential concern for injury when exercising with this intensity, as well as a hindrance, so I want to make sure I'm doing the right things to get the fat down to a reasonable level.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:07 PM   #10
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: The right balance for fat loss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca Roth View Post
I definitely am with you, Its a habit/obsession that I absolutely hate,
Then. Stop.

Quote:
and I've begun to have a much more well adjusted view of it in the past year or so. I do not have an end goal weight, nor is weight loss any part of my goals or something I'm using to measure my success in taking up crossfit (though I expect FAT loss will certainly be a side effect of doing cf and paleo),
That's a much better perspective.

Quote:
I am simply feeling the amount of excess fat could be a potential concern for injury when exercising with this intensity, as well as a hindrance, so I want to make sure I'm doing the right things to get the fat down to a reasonable level.
Bad technique is more likely to cause injury than excess fat, but yes you're right.

It's really as "easy" as :
  • Eat properly, be it Paleo, Zone, Zone/Paleo, or whatever.
  • Exercise properly. My current favorite concept of "proper" exercise is in The Primal Blueprint, with which Crossfit blends very well. This means the right blend of exercise movements, frequency, and intensity.
  • Rest/Recover properly. Again, I subscribe to PB.
  • Manage your stress well. I think this is overlooked by way too many people.
  • Set goals and judge your progress according to performance in the gym, clothing fit, and the mirror / tape measure. NOT the scale.
  • Believe in and Commit to your program. In my opinion, your 85-90% Paleo doesn't demonstrate commitment.
Cheers,

Mark
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