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Old 07-19-2010, 11:21 AM   #31
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Marcel Zwinger View Post
I'm tired of the old:
If it's a heavy weight: "sorry small dude, you are too weak, hahaha!"
If it's light/body weight: "hey, that's unfair, it favors the little guy, you can't say, that he/she is the fittest"

basically it boils down to:"I want my big dude to win"
Last year was a fair test. I hate when there's no legitimate test of real strength and the top CFers are skinny, moderately strong guys with good conditioning. I think Graham is a good "ambassador" and so is Rich. Spealler is a very impressive competitor, but I don't see how anyone can say he is the #3 "most fit person in the world" when his max DL is about 400lbs and he squats 300lbs (this is literally under half of what some people can lift at reasonable bodyweights, i.e. around 200lbs). Not to mention that in real sports, you don't get to do less work than the other competitors (i.e. push-ups, pull-ups, kettlebell swings, deadlifts, cleans, jerks, etc, etc).

Long distance run/row/swim/bike. Middle Distance Metcon. 1rm. Add some variety, put in some agility/speed tests, make some mixed-modal events, and you have a legit competition for World's Fittest. A competition where 2/3 of the events are mixed-modal 4-8 minute events and there is NO true test of strength? Nope.

I liked the first Games and Last year's competition. The 2007 Games ("every second counts") had the strongest guys finishing at the top, but I still thought it was a poor test of overall fitness. This year, I was rooting for Froning and he did very well, but I still think it was a bad test.

Again, though, I think Rich and Graham were the top 2 out there, and I think that even if they changed 2 of the final events to be a long distance row and a 1rm clean, we'd have the same winners. I think Mikko would have taken Speal's spot.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:28 AM   #32
Joshua Refenes
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
Last year was a fair test. I hate when there's no legitimate test of real strength and the top CFers are skinny, moderately strong guys with good conditioning.
If strength isn't the sole measure of fitness, wouldn't that be a fair description of what the "fittest" athlete might look like?

skinny - efficient, low body weight, not carry around extra pounds
moderately strong - able to handle their bodyweight (or more) in various lifts
good conditioning - they won't win a marathon, but they'll hold their own in a 5k.

I thought that the Games should provide the best example of a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" type?
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:35 AM   #33
Marcel Zwinger
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

fair.
I just got bored with all those metcons, too. I'm not sure that we need a true max-strength effort every year. sometimes, yes,of course.
besides, I liked the way they tossed in the "max overhead" event at the end of the descending hell.en.
did it for me.

allthough I wanted to see some kind of sprint-variation.

ah yes, as I already said, it didn't really favor the small guys.
315 might not be that heavy but a few pistols and double unders aren't anything near of what could be done unbroken repeatedly.

if there is:
3 rounds of:
100 double unders
50 pistols
30ft handstand walk

THEN it's biased towars the smaller guy as would a max lift (or king kong??) favor the bigger guy...
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:36 AM   #34
Josh Crawford
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
his max DL is about 400lbs and he squats 300lbs (this is literally under half of what some people can lift at reasonable bodyweights, i.e. around 200lbs).
So how many people in the competition can deadlift 800+ and squat 600+?
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:39 AM   #35
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Joshua Refenes View Post
If strength isn't the sole measure of fitness, wouldn't that be a fair description of what the "fittest" athlete might look like?

skinny - efficient, low body weight, not carry around extra pounds
moderately strong - able to handle their bodyweight (or more) in various lifts
good conditioning - they won't win a marathon, but they'll hold their own in a 5k.

I thought that the Games should provide the best example of a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" type?
I knew I'd get heat for that. I feel like guys like Spencer Hendel, Rob Orlando, Jason Khalipa, Tommy Hackenbruck, Matt Chan, etc. look more like the guys we see winning at the other major sports (and most of the non-major ones, too -- wrestling has weight classes b/c the smaller guys aren't as good as the bigger guys all other things being equal; obviously there are a couple exceptions). If I tell someone I do CrossFit, I'd like them to associate that with a bunch of 6', 200lb machines that are legitimately strong but also well conditioned and can handle their bodyweight.

This was kinda my own personal opinion and I'm not arguing it like the other points.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:42 AM   #36
Shane Skowron
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Thomas Green View Post
Yes lol. As do I.

It doesn't make sense to me that someone with a 300lb squat can be in contention for the worlds fittest haha
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Nor does it make sense to me that someone who can't climb a wall would be.


Katherine

Right, or that someone with a 21+ minute 5k is the fittest person alive.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:43 AM   #37
Andy Gann
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
I knew I'd get heat for that. I feel like guys like Spencer Hendel, Rob Orlando, Jason Khalipa, Tommy Hackenbruck, Matt Chan, etc. look more like the guys we see winning at the other major sports (and most of the non-major ones, too -- wrestling has weight classes b/c the smaller guys aren't as good as the bigger guys all other things being equal; obviously there are a couple exceptions). If I tell someone I do CrossFit, I'd like them to associate that with a bunch of 6', 200lb machines that are legitimately strong but also well conditioned and can handle their bodyweight.

This was kinda my own personal opinion and I'm not arguing it like the other points.
So - Spealler - with a DL of 400 and a Squat of 300 ALREADY HAS A 5x BW Crossfit Total without adding in the press. Does that not count as legitimately strong?
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:45 AM   #38
Andy Gann
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Right, or that someone with a 21+ minute 5k is the fittest person alive.
It is easier for a 6'+ athlete to DL 500# and run a 21 minute 5k than it is for a 135# athlete to dead lift 500 lbs and still run a 21 minute 5k.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:48 AM   #39
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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So how many people in the competition can deadlift 800+ and squat 600+?
Phil Harrington YOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.- 198lbs, 945lb (suited) squat
Ryan Celli YOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.-- Weighs 198lbs, squats 600 raw
Ed Coan YOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.-- Weighed 239 and deadlifted 901. I believe he also deadlifted over 800 at 198.

Re-read my post.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:50 AM   #40
Andy Gann
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Re: 2010 games scoring - impossible to catch up?

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
Phil HarringtonYOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.- - 198lbs, 945lb (suited) squat
Ryan Celli YOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.-- Weighs 198lbs, squats 600 raw
Ed Coan YOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.-- Weighed 239 and deadlifted 901. I believe he also deadlifted over 800 at 198.

Re-read my post.
I don't see those guys in the list of competitors ....
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