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Old 08-22-2010, 10:35 PM   #1
John Stone
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Athletic cheat, or ???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...der-storm.html (WFS)

The transgender athlete (male undergoing hormone treatment) that competes against women in track and field (and destroys the competition).

Seems like a cheat to me, as there is a reason genders don't compete directly (until now I guess). Do the CF games even test for this sort of chicanery, or just run-of-the-mill steroids and performance enhancers?

I had never even heard of this sort of thing, but I guess it's out there.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:49 AM   #2
Charles Applin
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

Personally, someone over 50 (that can compete in the Masters) should be able to compete in the normal competition should they see fit. It's just a matter of passing the sectionals and regionals. However, no one under 50 should be allowed to compete in the Masters. So it's one-way discrimination that few would have a problem with.

Likewise, I think there should be no problem for females compete against men in the sectionals then go on to regionals and finals should they place well enough. However, no men should be allowed to compete in the female division. Again, it's one-way discrimination.

Anyone see a problem with this? I never cared too much for double standards. However, secondary standards for different divisions were never a problem for me.

As for testing for gender, well, there is the urinalysis test that's performed at the games. I assume the atheletes are being viewed as they donate to the cause.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:24 AM   #3
John Stone
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Applin View Post
Personally, someone over 50 (that can compete in the Masters) should be able to compete in the normal competition should they see fit. It's just a matter of passing the sectionals and regionals. However, no one under 50 should be allowed to compete in the Masters. So it's one-way discrimination that few would have a problem with.
Age != gender?

The primary difference in the two examples: one can not choose to not get older, but one can choose to take steroidal hormone treatment.

I see this as essentially wiping out women's competition. If men are allowed to compete vs women, why bother having different competitions at all? Just force all the women to qualify vs the men -- that is what appears to be happening anyway. It is discriminatory vs women, but apparently in our PC world that is OK?
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:53 AM   #4
Rick Hardin
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

That's a dude.

Just sayin'.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:07 AM   #5
Scott Stevens
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

I can't find a straight answer on the internets but it seems like she's possibly a hermaphrodite? This is basically, by definition, a grey area. What % female is she?
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:50 AM   #6
Lawrence "Bo" Boland III
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

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Originally Posted by Scott Stevens View Post
I can't find a straight answer on the internets but it seems like she's possibly a hermaphrodite? This is basically, by definition, a grey area. What % female is she?
Yeah, there's no evidence out there that she is "transgendered". I found a lot of articles talking about her having a chromosomal condition in which she was born female, but has some male secondary characteristics (no, not genitals).
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:59 AM   #7
Jon Cowie
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

I read a very informative book about steroids & their effects in sport; it was published about 10 years ago so is probably out of date, however at the time:

1-It was not possible to directly detect synthetic testosterone
2-They had to compare the ratios of testosterone:epitestosterone to get an indication of usage (It was not possible to artificially supplement epi so the ratios were fair indicators of synth. testosterone
3-Normal levels are around 1:1, but SLIGHT variations were possible depending upon a multitude of factors (diet, training, age, lifestyle, menstrual cycle etc)
4-To account for these variables, athletes were permitted a ratio of 6:1. Yes, 6 times as much testosterone as epitestosterone
5-The majority of athletes at the time did not consider it cheating, merely making full utilisation of the rules (and to maintain a level footing with competitiors)
6-If this is still true today (and i suspect the money available in sports far exceeds the funds allocated within the sporting bodies' drug testing schemes), then there are far more 'transgender' level women athletes than currently contested (i realise that no amount of supplementation will truely make this so, but even a slight increase in male hormones in a female will greatly increase said females performance to a similar net effect. Of course, reading 1 book does not make me any amount of expert - unless you want me on some crappy daytime tv show, i reckon i'd fit right in!)
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:01 AM   #8
John Stone
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

Interesting stuff, Jon.

Also to the possibility that he is a hermaphrodite, I guess I am at a loss. He'd have both XY and XX chromosomes, so it would be unfair to him/her to make him/her compete vs women, and unfair to women to make them compete against him/her.

Moral stumper there.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:25 AM   #9
Charles Applin
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

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Originally Posted by John Stone View Post
Age != gender?

The primary difference in the two examples: one can not choose to not get older, but one can choose to take steroidal hormone treatment.

I see this as essentially wiping out women's competition. If men are allowed to compete vs women, why bother having different competitions at all? Just force all the women to qualify vs the men -- that is what appears to be happening anyway. It is discriminatory vs women, but apparently in our PC world that is OK?
Yeah, that's why I said it goes one way: A female can compete in the men's competition but a male cannot compete in a female's competition. It's the woman that chooses whether to compete in the more difficult men's division or stay in the female division.

Does anyone else think that's fair? We have Women and Masters divisions so that more people can have an opportunity to display their talents. That's cool. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people compete in a more difficult division (Men's division in CrossFit Game's case).

But yeah, depending on the sport (mostly all of them), men should not be allowed to compete against women. Just don't use that thinking to prevent women from competing against men.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:11 AM   #10
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Athletic cheat, or ???

"But yeah, depending on the sport (mostly all of them), men should not be allowed to compete against women. Just don't use that thinking to prevent women from competing against men."

Ahhh, logical inconsistency.
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