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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 01-09-2006, 10:22 AM   #1
Neal Winkler
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For some reason, I can do almost as many consecutive muscle-ups as I can do pull ups.

I can do 6 muscle-ups in a row, but I can only get 10-12 pull-ups tops.

I don't know if this is a grip problem or just that I have no gas. It just seems like I am going fine then all of a sudden I just have to stop.

What's the deal?
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:53 AM   #2
Dennis Yiatras
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neal I need to have that problem.. Well I would do jumping or assisted pullups if you have no gas left.If your doing 6 mu's in a row you'll get through this pretty quick . Good luck
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:02 AM   #3
Eugene R. Allen
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Neal - One of us is weird. I can do 51 pullups and half that many ring dips but still can't do a muscle up. I just can't get past the trasition point. I sure wish I could do as many muscle ups as you...you'll pile on the pullups in no time. You just need to do more pullups. GTG, Grease the Groove...do sub-maximal amount of pullups throughout the day. Put up a pullup bar in your house and do 6 pullups everytime you walk by it. Do lockouts at the top, weighted pullups and make them your friend.

In the meantime I'll work on muscleups.
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:15 AM   #4
Christian Lemburg
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Hah, finally a chance to put my secret MU-theory to the test.

Neal, I predict you to have superior grip and wrist strength, as well as having very good strength in sidewise rotational movements with a bent arm (like the movement in arm wrestling, which you are good at), and arm abduction movements (like the iron cross). You have well developed wrist and finger extensors (the muscles on your upper forearm), and also a formidable coracobrachialis and brachialis muscle. (see http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas/ for anatomy pictures). In comparison, your lats are weak. You don't have that "flying squirrel" look if you lift your arms, but you have rather flexible shoulders.

Eugene, I predict you have superior lat strength and endurance, but a relatively weak forearm, coracobrachialis, and brachialis muscle. Relative to your overall strength, you are poor at arm-wrestling. Abducting your arms away to the side (as in an iron cross) is a weakness of you. On top of that, you have inflexible shoulders.

In short, I propose that muscle-ups and especially the transition are more about strength in the elbow joint and the wrist while controlling arm abduction at the same time, while pullups are about pulling strength in the shoulder joint. Of course you can "jump through" the transition if you have enough pulling strength, but that is not my point. In addition, it is not possible to do a controlled transition without decent shoulder flexibility.

Now all of you can go ahead and make me look like a complete idiot by saying I am totally wrong.

Crossing my fingers,

Christian
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Old 01-10-2006, 06:10 AM   #5
William Hunter
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Christian,

Wrong or right that is a very well thought out and interesting theory. Judging from your profile (software consultant), are anatomy and physiology merely a hobby for you?
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:36 AM   #6
Eugene R. Allen
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Christian - you are a psychic. Your analysis is spot on. I am indeed poor at arm wrestling and I am weak in the iron cross movement and I have very, very inflexible shoulders. I cannot do a squat snatch or OHS. Also I am poor at math.

eug
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:19 AM   #7
Christian Lemburg
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William,

yes, anatomy and physiology are a hobby for me. My family is full of physicians, though (4 out of 6) - maybe it comes from there.

Eugene - well, now you know what to work on. Honestly, I would do less endurance work on the pullups, and focus on getting the wrist/elbow strength together with some serious flexibility work. The desktop muscle-up that Andreas Kalteis demonstrated on the front-page (http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/a...p_crossfit.wmv) is a nice demo of what the muscle-up is all about. Can you do the seated muscle-up that Tyler has on his ring DVD (legs forward on high block, rings on block height, muscle-up from rowing start position)? It works the right muscles, unlike the pullups.

Good luck,

Christian
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:47 PM   #8
Cheryl Cohen
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Christian,

Could you explain in a little more detail the particulars of the seated muscle-up option. I'd like to work on things that would help me transition to a true muscle-up.
Suggestions for wrist/elbow strenght? Shoulder flexibility?

Thanks!

Cheryl
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:56 PM   #9
Ted Williams
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Eugene...I'm poor at math too!
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:48 AM   #10
Christian Lemburg
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Cheryl,

like this:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/18278.jpg

Cheers,

Christian
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