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Old 01-13-2008, 03:29 AM   #11
Jay Cohen
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Re: Supplements

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Originally Posted by Matt Chan View Post
Fish oil, U-Trition Liquid Multi (the best out there), ON Whey, ON Casein (before bed), and Myogenix After Shock for post workout recovery. I've mentioned it before on a thread and I'll say it again.... After Shock after devastating workouts will assist recover more than anything out there. Try it. With 12 almonds, its a 4 block meal.
Matt;
AfterShock is your typical BB hyped product. Nothing more then carbs+protein. You can make your own from real food, or buy basic protein powder(pick what type of protein) add some fruit, done and alot cheaper. Matter of fact, the plastic container that AfterShock comes in, probably costs more then the ingredients.
Real food for Real people.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #12
Matt Chan
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Re: Supplements

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Originally Posted by Jay Cohen View Post
Matt;
AfterShock is your typical BB hyped product. Nothing more then carbs+protein. You can make your own from real food, or buy basic protein powder(pick what type of protein) add some fruit, done and alot cheaper. Matter of fact, the plastic container that AfterShock comes in, probably costs more then the ingredients.
Real food for Real people.
I disagree. It contains everything in one shaker that many people buy seperately and have to mix into one big digusting shake. Antioxidants, BCAA's, protein, carbs, joint repair, and a recovery stack. KreAkalyn is not found in foods. Its a modified form of creatine that requires no loading, does not cause the bloating that many people experience with creatine monohydrate, and no realease of the toxin creatinine, which will harm your kidneys.

You know Jay, you're probably right. I'm sure that its entirely possible to find each of the elements of AfterShock in "real food". I challenge you to build a menu that would replace this easy post-workout drink. Shake, shake, shake, and drink. Better yet, try a container of it... its 15 servings. I bet you change your mind (I sound like a effing salesman).
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:33 AM   #13
Dan Heaney
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Re: Supplements

Fish Oil, Whey Protein and Creatine with maltodextrin (PWO) Been trying to keep as Paleo as possible except for PWO, 1/2 cup cottage cheese in the morning and a cup before bed.

Jay you seem to be bitter the last few days! Seems like your quick to jump on people lately. Relax a bit my man!!
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:41 AM   #14
Jay Cohen
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Re: Supplements

Matt;

I apologize (thanks Dan) if I came off a tad strong. It's just that I'm on this"get food from real food" thing, and I cringe at paying appx 2 bucks a serving, appx 60(based on 30.00 per container) per month for a product with the following "stuff:

2.64 Lbs. Wild Berry Blast
Supplement Facts
Serving Size3Level Scoops(80g)
Servings Per Container15
Amount Per Serving % DV*
Calories 280
Calories From Fat 25
Total Fat 3g 4%
Saturated Fat 2g 9%
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 60mg 20%
Total Carbohydrate 30g 10%
Sugars 15g
Other Carbohydrate 15g
Protein 32g 54%
Calcium 255mg 26%
Sodium 270mg 11%
Potassium 125mg 4%
STACK™ 7g**
A Proprietary Non Steroidal, Highly Anabolic Formula Consisting Of Muscle Volumizers, Strength And Recovery Agents.
Kre-Alkalyn
L-Norvaline
Magnesium Glycyl Glutamine
Molecularly Bonded Glutamine HCL
BCAA's (Branched Chain Amino Acids) 7.3g**
L-Leucine 3.5g
L-Valine 1.9g
L-Isoleucine 2g
Antioxidant Blend 1500mg
(Vitamin A 73%, Vitamin C 1667%, Vitamin E 200%, Alpha Lipoic Acid, B1 (Thiamin) 200%, B2 (Riboflavin) 200%, B3 (Niacin) 200%, B5 (Pantothenic Acid) 200%, B6 200%, B9 (Folate) 200%, B12 200%)
Joint Repair 1500mg**
(Glucosamine Sulfate, Chondroitin Sulfate, MSM)
** Daily Value not established
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet
Other Ingredients
AFTERSHOCK Fast Absorption Protein Blend™ (Partially Hydrolyzed Whey Protein Isolate, High Growth Factor Ultra-Filtered Whey Protein Rich In Lactoferrins And Immunoglobulins), Glycogenx™: A Polymerized Glyconutrient Incorporating All Of The Conditionally Essential Monosaccharides And Polysaccharides Providing Cellurlar Rehydration And Glycogen Replenishment (Long Chain Polysaccharides And Short Chain Monosaccharides D-Glucose), Natural And Artificial Flavors, Citric Acid, Sucralose
Allergen Statement: This Product Contains Ingredients Derived From Milk.

I do take Creatine, and L-Glut, buy it pretty cheap from Vitacost, along with some other supps which aid digestion.
I guess I wonder that if I'm eating great clean protein, few carbs and high quality fat, why would I need this product, other then super easy convenience, which I do concede, but Matt, you're paying some big bucks.

Again, sorry for coming off so anal, my apologies again.

Dan, thanks for smacking me up side the head.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:49 AM   #15
Dan Heaney
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Re: Supplements

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Dan, thanks for smacking me up side the head.
Haha! No sweat.
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:09 PM   #16
Matt Chan
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Re: Supplements

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Haha! No sweat.
I second that. I do recommend the product either way. Prior to taking AfterShock as a post workout recovery drink, I too took a good majority of the components of the mix individually. In fact, my wife and I bought each of the ingredients (that were available) from Vitamin Cottage, where she received a employee discount and created our own cocktail. Still, much more expensive and not nearly as tastey or convienient. I recommend trying it... Don't believe me? Ask anyone at Front Range CrossFit.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:06 PM   #17
John C. Brown
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Re: Supplements

Guys,
Hey, I have been lurking and came across this so pardon if I am re-hashing. I work at (what used to be) a tactical training center, and have been training people in the tactical arts for about 9 years now. Through that time I have developed some pretty hard line ideas on things, here is my input on this. Since we never know when our next fight is or I guess could be is a better way to put it, you don't know what state of mind you will be in when it happens. About the best way to be prepared for it is to stick to things that aren't too involved. In other words; if you are out for a walk with your wife and someone jumps out from a dark place and begins a fight with you, you don't want to have to call time out to knock down your supplements, that take a half an hour to kick in anyway. With regards to the after work out drinks...the situation would be like, you fight your way out, but in the scuffle your wife gets stabbed or something terrible with no people in sight and now you have to carry her out. Sure you're dead tired from fighting potentially for your life, and now without any time for recovery you have to go again.

I know this all seems unlikely and really involved, but for a long time we have heard the saying "train like you fight," and I think this is wrong. You should say train like you expect to fight instead, and what that means is that when that ****ty situation happens, it is go time, how is your body going to respond etc... If you have been hitting the supplements before, during, or after your workouts, you may have a false sense of security in your ability. Personally I would rather know that I can get the job done with out the added help, especially since there may not be time for it. The easiest way to accomplish this, I think, is to eat a diet of real foods, taking care to get enough fat (really important here) and train no matter how you feel. Some days I get up and feel like I have been hit by a bus, but I go as hard as I can, because I don't get to choose when someone breaks into my house, and if they do when I am in that same mental state, I want to know that I can go. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:59 PM   #18
Nick Cummings
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Re: Supplements

I think maybe we are overlooking the foundation. Every person training is going to get something close to 90% of their results by training hard, eating right, and recovering adequitely. So supplements can come in at the discretion of the user after these other things are dialed in to whatever degree the individual prefers.

A lot of supplements promise huge benefits that many have reported that they do not deliver on. That being said there does seem to be evidence that there are a number of compounds available that do produce reliable results. The evidence in support of creatine is very strong. The evidence in support of fish oil is rock solid. The evidence in support of Zinc is strong. The evidence in support of whey protein, when there is inadequite dietary protein, is strong. The evidence in support of drinking green tea is strong. The evidence in support of consuming spices like curry, corainder, etc is strong. The evidence in support of resveratrol is also strong.

Another thing to consider is the placebo effect. Now I do not necessarily think that it is wise to spend my money to convince myself to workout more intensely but perhaps some have more disposable income than me.

I do not see not having access to supplements in a surprise situation to be a strong arguement against their use but to each their own.
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:16 AM   #19
Hone Watson
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Re: Supplements

Nordic Natural Cod Liver Oil
Calcium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin E
Multi Vitamin
Sunlight
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:27 AM   #20
Mickey O'Neil
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Re: Supplements

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Originally Posted by John C. Brown View Post
Guys,
Hey, I have been lurking and came across this so pardon if I am re-hashing. I work at (what used to be) a tactical training center, and have been training people in the tactical arts for about 9 years now. Through that time I have developed some pretty hard line ideas on things, here is my input on this. Since we never know when our next fight is or I guess could be is a better way to put it, you don't know what state of mind you will be in when it happens. About the best way to be prepared for it is to stick to things that aren't too involved. In other words; if you are out for a walk with your wife and someone jumps out from a dark place and begins a fight with you, you don't want to have to call time out to knock down your supplements, that take a half an hour to kick in anyway. With regards to the after work out drinks...the situation would be like, you fight your way out, but in the scuffle your wife gets stabbed or something terrible with no people in sight and now you have to carry her out. Sure you're dead tired from fighting potentially for your life, and now without any time for recovery you have to go again.

I know this all seems unlikely and really involved, but for a long time we have heard the saying "train like you fight," and I think this is wrong. You should say train like you expect to fight instead, and what that means is that when that ****ty situation happens, it is go time, how is your body going to respond etc... If you have been hitting the supplements before, during, or after your workouts, you may have a false sense of security in your ability. Personally I would rather know that I can get the job done with out the added help, especially since there may not be time for it. The easiest way to accomplish this, I think, is to eat a diet of real foods, taking care to get enough fat (really important here) and train no matter how you feel. Some days I get up and feel like I have been hit by a bus, but I go as hard as I can, because I don't get to choose when someone breaks into my house, and if they do when I am in that same mental state, I want to know that I can go. Just my 2 cents.
John,

Some very valid points. I think along the same lines as you, however, due to my work - eating, sleeping, and training right are next to impossible. I sometimes have to hit the gym at 3 or 4 am after a 13-14 hour shift (and after being up 24 hours). Getting a meal with the right things in it can prove difficult when you are sitting on a train in the middle of the desert for 8 or 9 hours. A protein shake, fish oil, multi-vitamin and a couple of other things do the trick for me. Will I count on them the next time I am forced to take Immediate Action, no way, but in the meantime they are an easy way for me to supplement (Key word here is Supplement) my diet and ensure that I am getting the protein, etc. that I need. If I worked a regular job (even if i was still in the Corps) I could get the food and rest that i need - being on call 24-7 and sometimes going to work after being up 18 hours, caffeine and B12 are my friends. Maybe not the healthiest things in the world, but being alert means being alive in my business.

So to wrap it up - if you can eat and rest as Rx, then you probably don't need any type of supplements. If you're like me, then they will probably benefit you. My .02c.

Semper Fi

Mickey
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