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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-13-2008, 06:47 PM   #11
Justin Shipley
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Thanks for the reply Veronica

I'm starting to get more touchy-feely while cueing clients after watching this-

w/fs

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

-and your suggestion makes perfect sense after watching Rip wallop that guy!

I already apply that technique, a la Rip, when clients are squatting, so it only makes sense that it'll work in other exercises I'm instructing.

Thanks again
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:50 PM   #12
John McPherson
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

I've recently had a client come to me with similar issues. Zero flexibility, no balance, no coordination and absolutely no awareness of where his body is during movement. None of the standard cues work with him and demonstrations are futile. I've gone hands on, I've video taped, I've progressed him through range of motion but to no avail. Even trying to perform a lunge walk is a chore, he can not figure out which foot to step forward with, even when at the down position. Yes I am very patient and encouraging with him and everyday he wants to do more, except it just doesn't happen.

In his case, I have had to delicately talk him into coming to private sessions, as he is a serious time consumer in the class settings and the risk of injury is just too great, not only to himself but others, imagine KB swings... I'm worried that I am dealing with something much bigger, that time, patience and diligence will ever help correct. I almost feel as though there is a serious disconnect in his brain that hinders him from being able to control his body's movements.

I too would appreciate any ideas of how to help him develop better self awareness, in hopes that he will realize what his body is doing, so that he can begin to control it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:36 AM   #13
Veronica Davis
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Shipley View Post
Thanks for the reply Veronica

I'm starting to get more touchy-feely while cueing clients after watching this-

w/fs

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

-and your suggestion makes perfect sense after watching Rip wallop that guy!

I already apply that technique, a la Rip, when clients are squatting, so it only makes sense that it'll work in other exercises I'm instructing.

Thanks again
Not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John McPherson View Post
Even trying to perform a lunge walk is a chore, he can not figure out which foot to step forward with, even when at the down position. Yes I am very patient and encouraging with him and everyday he wants to do more, except it just doesn't happen.

I too would appreciate any ideas of how to help him develop better self awareness, in hopes that he will realize what his body is doing, so that he can begin to control it.
Sounds just like my awkward client. Two things that help is breaking the movement into steps and doing the first couple reps with him while talking through them movement. If I show him an exercise then have him do it... it's like his brain totally reverses what I just showed him. If I just say the movement his brain can't connect it with action.

Walking lunges for example.... I break the movement into steps. 1) Take a step 2) bend legs 3) straighten legs 4) bring back leg to front leg. But the first few times I had to do it with him. Also, I have him exaggerate the first step. He can't actually do a smooth set of walking lunges now.

We work on squats every time we meet and he's improved considerably. I have him squat to a box then every week I lower the box. To expose where his weaknesses are, I had him do squats on a bosu (flat part facing up). I discovered that he has a weak core, he has a problem distributing his weight over both legs, and he's not driving through his heels.

The other thing to help him develop coordination is I have him walk on all fours (hands and feet) as fast as he can. The first few times his face stopped his fall (LOL), but he's improved over time.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:32 PM   #14
Justin Shipley
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

I just continually marvel over the fact that these people have 'nothing wrong with them' but have everything wrong with them...

I guess this is the human face of the obesity and inactivity statistics we read of, and the price you pay for a lifetime spent eating poorly, sitting in a slumped position... a lot..., and never being placed in a situation where some of the fundamentals of fitness like balance, coordination, agility, etc, are requirements

I fear for the future of the species... it's only gonna take a couple of decent natural disasters for the weak, slow and stupid to be weeded out and removed from the gene pool...but hey, that's nature...

Forgive my Darwinian musings...
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:12 PM   #15
Karin Jonczak
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

I would also listen / watch as many of the videos as you can about teaching kids... seriously.

You can't tell a kid to maintain their lumbar curve, but keep their arms up and stick their butt out works.

And I would also agree with the keep it fun.

WODs can be simple... and still be fun and full of variety.

Karin
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:23 PM   #16
Justin Shipley
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Must've read my mind Karin, just downloading Jeff Martin's Teaching Kids to Squat video from the CF journal, some good stuff, let's see if i can apply it
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:57 PM   #17
Jill Zimmerman
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Againfaster video on fixing squats is great hanging onto a column while going deep and staying upright and goblet squatting.

Delita I am sure will forgive this mention of her, can hardly squat at all but deadlift like a beast. I suck at squatting too. But deadlift fine. Maybe find something that they excell at? I love glute ham raises and when I feel like a failure I do a bunch.

My kid who can do nothing either always does some (jet propulsion black) band assisted pullups. Makes him feel good even if it is 90% the band doing it. And he likes to bench press, I put him in the cage so he can't crush himself or fall over as he might in a standing move. Also he loves to row. But I agree with you trying to "tell him" what to do with his back and feet and arms and range of motion when he is pressing is frustrating if not infuriating. He responds to none of it. I just give him the 15 pound bar and try not to freak out. I can't let him do any standing stuff at all weight wise so tell him to do some shoulder dislocations.

Your "tone" has improved immensley through the dialog here but don't forget they can read this just like we can and the very first post might discourage if not crush them not a very flattering description to read of yourself true or not - this is coming from an easily crushed person.

I had "tone" with mentioning my sister on here and she got in here and read it gave me a blast of sh*t and it has resulted in our not speaking any more at all. Word of wisdom based on one of my (many) mistakes .
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:14 PM   #18
Justin Shipley
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Listen, my tone is simply verbal entertainment

I'm on here looking for advice to fix serious issues, not spare feelings

And if my clients of whom i speak were to read my words, then weigh them up against the time, effort, and enthusiasm and praise i inject into our sessions, coupled with the progress they've made, then i think that they'd realize which side their bread is buttered...

But i commiserate about the situation with your sister
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #19
Leigh Costain
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

[quote=I too would appreciate any ideas of how to help him develop better self awareness, in hopes that he will realize what his body is doing, so that he can begin to control it.[/QUOTE]

One thing that may provide some insight is looking into the distinction between learning styles. I am what is known as a kinesthetic learner; you can lecture me all day about oly lift mechanics and I won't get it. Stand next to me and tell me to "flick my wrists" and "get under the bar" and I'll find my groove much faster. Other types are visual, tactile, auditory.

It might be worth looking into because there is a "can't respond to cues" theme here. It may be just a lack of body awareness, but it may be a learning style issue, too.

One thing that used to help me with visual learners is to stand next to them in the mirror and ask them to mimic my movement.

I applaud you all for your efforts with these populations. But mostly I admire your clients who have the courage to face down these shortcomings, (that they know they have!) and come and risk embarrasing themselves in front of another person to start making a change.

The best coach I've worked with says "that was really good" after EVERY attempt. The she tells me what to fix. It's the encouragement I remember, not the gazillion problems I still have with my form.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:20 PM   #20
Sara Fleming
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Re: *not deconditioned, but PRECONDITIONED clients*

Justin,

I am completely uncoordinated. I have to figure things out completely in my brain before even attempting it with my body. The only sport I ever competed in with any success was horseback riding and I attribute that to the fact that it didn't require me to run and think at the same time.

However, my Crossfit coach was actually able to teach me the Olympic lifts by allowing me to ask a bunch of stupid questions, make my own metaphors and comparisons to other actions, demonstrating the correct form, and then demonstrating an exaggerated version of my incorrect form. He also had me do some dynamic stretches and assistance exercises between sets that reinforced the movements I was screwing up. He figured out which cues I needed (on clean and jerk, HIPS!; on snatch, HIPS AND ELBOWS!). Basically, the verbal/mental was the way to go with me. Once I could mentally rehearse it correctly focusing on my cues, I could do it pretty flawlessly.

Just another example of how weird uncoordinated people can be taught. Visualization can play a huge role in neuromuscularfacillitation (muscle memory) so see if you can find ways to allow the client to mentally rehearse the movement with cues in place as both practice and preparation for the exercise.

Good luck,

Sara
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