CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2006, 04:59 AM   #1
Rich Krauss
Member Rich Krauss is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Roslyn  NY
Posts: 96
I tried lowering the bar during back squat below neck just above rear delts as in Rippetoe's book but it seems low. Is this the right position? It seems more comfortable right below the most prominant cervical spine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2006, 05:27 AM   #2
Keith Wittenstein
Affiliate Keith Wittenstein is offline
 
Keith Wittenstein's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York  New York
Posts: 945
Rip also recommends wrapping the thumbs over the top of the bar with the rest of the fingers and lifting your elbows up and back so you are not holding the bar up with you hands but rather supporting the weight on the back and using the arms to keep the bar in place. Keep playing with it. Maybe post a pic to see and we can have a look at it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2006, 06:50 AM   #3
Barry Cooper
Member Barry Cooper is offline
 
Barry Cooper's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Louisville  KY
Posts: 2,188
The back is a lever, and the longer the lever, the more torque at the end. As I understood it, that was the main idea. As Keith said, the thumb and elbow position he recommends help support that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2006, 08:42 AM   #4
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
Rich,
The high-bar position you mention, where the bar is resting around C7-T1, can cause problems over time. Compression of two spinous processes (especially the most prominent ones in the entire body) with some of the heaviest loads most people deal with in weight training is a recipe for trouble.

I use one of two options. The first is the Manta Ray (Google it) for high bar squats. The high-bar squat is preferred by those training for the Olympic lifts. Some overly macho people think things like the Manta Ray are for sissies. Personally, I'd rather be the guy who was still squatting in the latter half of my life than the macho guy with herniated cervical discs from years of unnecessary punishment. To each their own.

The second would be the low-bar position that Coach Rippetoe suggests. I don't use this much, as I don't PL. If you don't have a pad or Manta Ray or aren't willing to use one, I'd suggest going with the low-bar position.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2006, 03:41 PM   #5
stef bradford
******
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
If you don't have a pad or Manta Ray or aren't willing to use one, I'd suggest going with the low-bar position.

More traps + tight upper back (to bunch them up) makes a nice, natural protective pad for either high or low bar position squats.

s.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 09:29 AM   #6
Rich Krauss
Member Rich Krauss is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Roslyn  NY
Posts: 96
is having the bar rest along the traps considered safe?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 10:56 AM   #7
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
Stef,
In my education and training in the nervous system, bunching up the traps is setting the body's entire "startle" reflex into action before even lifting a weight.

Related study: http://www.kines.uiuc.edu/labwebpages/nck/index_files/Articles/Postural_and_eye- blink_indices_of_the_defensive_startle_reflex.pdf

This will create neck problems over time along with the "turtle" appearance (head appearing to be pulled into the shoulders) over time--that's the SAID principle in action. Most PLers and fighters have this issue, as this is what they train. We become better/stronger at what we train--this includes excessive tension created in the neck and shoulders to lift weights in relatively arbitrary ways (ie. bar on back of neck versus Manta Ray--neither one is really more "functional" if the weights are the same).

I don't believe that the trapezius muscles, no matter how big, can prevent big weights from digging into the spine in a high bar position. Even if they can, the force is still transmitted through the system in the same way. Spreading the weight over a larger surface area is only a good idea to prevent potential future issues, that's what the Manta Ray does.

Again, I'm in the game for the long run.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 11:16 AM   #8
Veronica Carpenter
Affiliate Veronica Carpenter is offline
 
Veronica Carpenter's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oroville  CA
Posts: 2,709
it's probably safer than having the bar rest on the c-spine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2006, 07:01 PM   #9
Lynne Pitts
Affiliate Lynne Pitts is offline
 
Lynne Pitts's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Madison  WI
Posts: 3,232
The manta ray feels very unstable; it balances the bar a good inch up off your body. With light squats that might not be an issue, but with heavy squats, you don't need to move the weight very much farther from COG to really notice. I concur with Stef: grow some traps, and use 'em.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2006, 08:18 AM   #10
Gabe Rinaldi
Member Gabe Rinaldi is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sunnyvale  CA
Posts: 185
I concur with Stef and Lynne. If you are doing high bar squats correctly it shouldn't be a problem.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shin/knee position- box squat and Olympic squat Anton Emery Exercises 2 06-19-2007 02:26 PM
Back-squat - safe to start from the down position? Michael Tong Exercises 4 06-19-2007 12:40 PM
Squats and back position Shane Upchurch Exercises 2 03-22-2007 08:05 AM
Hand position in front squat Jeff Kolehmainen Exercises 8 10-06-2005 08:26 PM
Back position during clean and snatch Janet Fisher Exercises 3 05-27-2004 08:57 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:13 PM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.