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Old 04-13-2005, 01:19 PM   #1
Woody Davis
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So I have been playing around with the Zone/Paleo for the last 2 weeks. I’ve had disasters and success and I’m having a hard time figuring out why. I’ve had moments of very intense food cravings and days where I had no desire to eat at all. I’m defining cravings as a sign of insulin imbalance where I crave sugary foods vs. real hunger when you body needs some food. What’s weird is that when I get it right, I can have substantial real hunger and yet no desire for food, but when I have insulin cravings, nothing satiates me. I’ve cut out most of the problem which was drinking at least a glass of whole milk a day, and although keeping carbs moderate, I was eating way too much sat. fat. New problem is that I can suffer cravings sometimes for no reason I can see. I’m trying to review my diet but its not providing any good information. It seems from reading Loren’s book (Paleo Diet) and some of his papers on the web, that lean protein is the key to be satisfied and controlling hunger. I’m thinking of increasing lean protein levels even more, but sometimes for me, a high protein meal makes the cravings worse. I know in the past, I underestimated the amount of protein I was getting because I wasn’t considering the fat content of meat. Now I mostly eat seafood, skinless chicken, or lean meat. Just sharing and hoping I can get this under control. The few days (about 4 in a row) where I “got it”, I felt amazing and I get ****ed off knowing how good it could be.
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:54 PM   #2
Nicole Carroll
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Hi Woody-

How are you Zoning? Do you have a block prescrption? Are you weighing and measuring? Do you keep a food log? If so send a couple of days this way...

The primary reason we prescribe the Zone is the accuracy and precision the diet provides. If you: Get a block prescription, weigh and measure your meals and write it all down every day for at least 2 - 4 weeks then we have a starting point. We can make incremental, isolated changes until we find that "i got it" place for you. Without this kind of precision and recording you will be hard pressed to dial it in on a consistent basis.
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Old 04-13-2005, 06:35 PM   #3
Woody Davis
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Well, I read Enter the Zone a while ago, but I also recently read Loren’s Paleo Diet. The full Zone of counting blocks and measuring is never going to be practical with me considering business lunches and dinners, travel, etc. However, I can do my best to make wise choices in food and general portions. For example, to start with I cut out my old habits of drinking whole milk every day, eating peanut butter and peanuts almost every day, and having cheese burgers for lunch a few times a week. Those I stopped completely. I used to have a huge decaf coffee with cream as breakfast. Now I eat an egg white (mixed with one whole egg) omelet (no cheese, salt or ketchup) and fruit or maybe a Kashi whole wheat cereal. Sometimes I eat leftovers for breakfast to see if having eggs or not having them has any effect. Some days (when things are randomly going well) I’m not hungry and may skip breakfast.

Lunch in the past few days has been salad made with grilled chicken, fruit, pistachios, and greens (very little dressing). Another day was grilled chicken and rice and beans. I went light on the rice and beans for obvious reasons but I did have some them. Today I wasn’t as good and had a chicken burrito with rice and beans, but the goal was to see if more carbs might help control the cravings since I know I am just going to eat a ton of candy if I get the cravings anyway.

Dinner has been all kinds of things although I had special dinners planned on Fri, Sat, and Sunday, so I was drinking alcohol and having dessert all three nights. Oddly, those were the “good” days when I had no cravings. On a normal night I have a salad, cooked greens like swiss chard, and a healthy meat like fish, chicken, or lean pork. Twice a week I have red meat. One night this week I had half a sweet potato with dinner. However, on the healthy dinner nights I usually break down and have some chocolate because after eating I get some cravings.

For snacks I have food at work and usually eat fruit (mostly an apple) as well as keeping chicken or carved turkey around for a snack. I had chicken salad (made with a little non-fat yogurt and no mayo) today as a snack. On “good” days I don’t need snacks.

Basically, I’m playing with it every day. Some days I do everything wrong and it goes great. Other days I do about as well as I think I can and it goes horribly. Tonight, after snacking on chicken salad and some fruit, the cravings got so bad that I had maybe 20 Hershey Kisses (chocolate) along with some other carbs. HORRIBLE. Although I felt much better after eating it and my cravings ended. I’ll keep working at it, but after giving up all the milk and fat, I’ve almost regressed at times. Just very frustrated for now and my wife says I have become obsessed with food, but in my mind I’m just trying to keep things from going out of control. Eating large amounts of chocolate at work is unacceptable. I will reread the Zone since I read it years ago. Just hoping someone might have some good advice on these powerful cravings.

As for volume of food I am eating, seldom during the cravings am I ever truly hungry, its all craving. Not like my stomach is sucked in and growling.

I know that someone said, “unless you are measuring you are not Zoning”, but such measuring is too impractical for me.


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Old 04-14-2005, 09:40 AM   #4
Patrick Walsh
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Eat more fat. Around 30% of your calories should be from healthy fat sources. The only fat I see in the above food you listed was the pistachios.

I agree that measuring all your food is quite a pain. Pickup your old zone book and figure out how many blocks you should be eating, then look at some of the suggested meals they have in there and use those as rough guidelines when you prepair your meals. I'm guessing a good simple breakfast for you would be something close to:
4 eggs
2 apples
12 almonds

Maybe just concentrate on making yourself a zone breakfast for a week or two. Once you feel comfortable doing that move on to lunch, then snacks, then dinner.
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:50 AM   #5
Mark Gebhard
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"I know that someone said, “unless you are measuring you are not Zoning”, but such measuring is too impractical for me."

I thought this way for a long time, and then I finally broke down, bought a scale, and measured for a few weeks. It hasn't been too long, but I've already seen great results and I'm getting to the point where I can eyeball things pretty accurately now and don't need the scale.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:07 PM   #6
Eric Moffit
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Nicole,
what do you mean exactly when you say "dial it in"? i feel like i make good choices but lately have felt like crap generally and i cant figure out why. oh, and if im more than 10 minutes late on a meal, i feel like im about to pass out. if you dont mind analyzing, heres what a typical day looks like for me.

breakfast (8:00) : eggs (2 whole, 2 whites), 1/4cup of shredded cheese, 1cup of milk, 2/3cup of steel cut oatmeal, and a piece of fruit along w/ 4x blocks of almonds.

lunch (12:00) : 4.5oz of deli meat (ham and turkey), 2oz cheese, 1cup grapes, 1cup strawberries, apple, 4x blocks of peanuts

snack (2:30) : 1/2cup cottage cheese, 1cup milk, piece of fruit or 2/3cup of oatmeal, nuts

dinner (5:00) : 5oz chicken, some 5 block combo of fruit and vegetables (maybe a beer for 1 of the blocks), nuts

snack (8-9:00) : 1cup milk, 2oz cheese, apple, almonds

i dont mean to steal this thread, but this has been killing me the last week or so. i pretty much feel like crap all the time. also, as an aside, even when i was eating a carb-centric diet (w/o really knowing it), i never had any kind of weight problem (possibly insulin related?). thanks for any help.
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Old 04-15-2005, 07:37 PM   #7
Woody Davis
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OK, I'm going to go from asking for advice to giving it, but you are drinking a lot of milk and having some sort of milk product at almost every meal. At least from a Paleo perspective, diary is problematic for some people.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:39 PM   #8
Eric Moffit
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hmm...interesting point. as far as the milk goes, i thought i heard that Coach said milk was almost ideal (at least considering its protein-carb balance). thats why i include it (no such excuse for the cheese, though). anyways, what about dairy makes it bad, Woody?
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Old 04-17-2005, 02:56 PM   #9
Mark Gebhard
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Again, I haven't been doing the Zone for that long, but I've found that when I get my carbs from mostly dairy and fruit, I get pretty hungry and don't feel so hot. For two or three meals at least, I need to have a block or two of bulky carbs like cabbage, spinach, or broccoli. That seems to fill me up a lot more.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:20 PM   #10
Woody Davis
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http://thepaleodiet.com/articles/Milk%20Final.pdf

I'm trying the Paleo diet. I used to drink a lot of milk, but its considered to have a high insulin response. It conflicts with Paleo diet protocals, but also given the abnormally high insulin response, may conflict with other diets which attempt to optimize hormones.
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