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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-27-2010, 01:18 AM   #231
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
The answer to that question is self-evident. Why ask it?
It is self-evident that some exercises have more carry over than others, it is not self-evident why, say, all of the literally hundreds of leg/back exercise variations done or advocated by Westside all have carry over but the OHS does not.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 08:06 AM   #232
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
It is self-evident that some exercises have more carry over than others, it is not self-evident why, say, all of the literally hundreds of leg/back exercise variations done or advocated by Westside all have carry over but the OHS does not.
All resistance training will have some degree of carryover which directly correlates to its ability to stimulate an increase in force production capacity. By virtue of what it is, an overhead squat greatly limits the loads that can be used relative to other squatting variations thus making it greatly inferior to said variations other than the very specific goal of Olympic lifting where the lifter at the bottom of a squat snatch will find him or herself in a similar situation.

A similar situation might be the dumbbell squat where the lifter is limited by what they can hold at arm's length.

There are certainly some exercises in Westside that might be described in the same way (specific to the goal with little carryover), but I can't think of one at this time.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 11:40 AM   #233
Troy Becker
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
All resistance training will have some degree of carryover which directly correlates to its ability to stimulate an increase in force production capacity. By virtue of what it is, an overhead squat greatly limits the loads that can be used relative to other squatting variations thus making it greatly inferior to said variations other than the very specific goal of Olympic lifting where the lifter at the bottom of a squat snatch will find him or herself in a similar situation.

A similar situation might be the dumbbell squat where the lifter is limited by what they can hold at arm's length.

There are certainly some exercises in Westside that might be described in the same way (specific to the goal with little carryover), but I can't think of one at this time.
Now are you talking within the confines of getting stronger, power lifting, or what, exactly? Meaning- would you say that a football player, for instance, or a fighter, etc., would not get much out of an overhead squat as compared to the other exercises you refer to?
 
Old 11-27-2010, 11:54 AM   #234
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Now are you talking within the confines of getting stronger, power lifting, or what, exactly? Meaning- would you say that a football player, for instance, or a fighter, etc., would not get much out of an overhead squat as compared to the other exercises you refer to?
A football player most definitely would not. Fighters are a different story and have different needs although I would still not use overhead squats for them either.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 12:38 PM   #235
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
All resistance training will have some degree of carryover which directly correlates to its ability to stimulate an increase in force production capacity. By virtue of what it is, an overhead squat greatly limits the loads that can be used relative to other squatting variations thus making it greatly inferior to said variations other than the very specific goal of Olympic lifting where the lifter at the bottom of a squat snatch will find him or herself in a similar situation.

A similar situation might be the dumbbell squat where the lifter is limited by what they can hold at arm's length.

There are certainly some exercises in Westside that might be described in the same way (specific to the goal with little carryover), but I can't think of one at this time.
Based on your answer, it seems that you are assuming that we are using overhead squats for the same reason we do other squatting variations. And that the decreased stress on the legs is a disadvantage. We do not and it is not.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 12:39 PM   #236
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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A football player most definitely would not. Fighters are a different story and have different needs although I would still not use overhead squats for them either.
That's interesting. While I wouldn't call myself a "fighter," I've found overhead squats to be one of the most directly applicable CF exercises for my own martial arts practice.

Even though I rarely (if ever) need to stabilize a load overhead, I still benefit from the trunk stability, the ability to maintain upright posture in a mechanically disadvantaged position, and the shoulder flexibility that the OHS develops.

The OHS and the front squat are also much closer than the back squat to the structural alignment I want for aikido.

Katherine
 
Old 11-27-2010, 01:16 PM   #237
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
Based on your answer, it seems that you are assuming that we are using overhead squats for the same reason we do other squatting variations. And that the decreased stress on the legs is a disadvantage. We do not and it is not.
'We' being who? I think I pretty clearly stated the exercise may have use in an O lifting regimen. I DON'T think it is something that need be taught to someone that has very little overall strength etc. as was originally brought up here.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 01:17 PM   #238
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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That's interesting. While I wouldn't call myself a "fighter," I've found overhead squats to be one of the most directly applicable CF exercises for my own martial arts practice.

Even though I rarely (if ever) need to stabilize a load overhead, I still benefit from the trunk stability, the ability to maintain upright posture in a mechanically disadvantaged position, and the shoulder flexibility that the OHS develops.

The OHS and the front squat are also much closer than the back squat to the structural alignment I want for aikido.

Katherine
There are other exercises that would more effectively achieve your goals. With that said, the choice is obviously yours to train as you see fit.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #239
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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There are other exercises that would more effectively achieve your goals. With that said, the choice is obviously yours to train as you see fit.
There are lots of bodyweight exercises from classical martial arts (as well as other movement practices, like yoga) that work those same characteristics. I do some of those, too, but find OHS are more fun and have more carryover to other activities I'm interested in. (Crossfit, for instance.)

Still, as I've posted before, I'm always looking for alternatives. What would you recommend?

Katherine
 
Old 11-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #240
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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The answer to that question is self-evident.
Translation: "I have no idea"
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