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Old 11-24-2010, 10:22 PM   #11
Terry Gibbs
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post
I said naught about UST&F. Eric understood me correctly.

But since you ask, UST&F doped their way to dominance with the tacit blessing of membership into the NCAA monopoly. So no, I don't think much of UST&F.
I cannot believe you put that out there....says a lot about you...

I always try to make sure I know what I am talking about before giving advice. Think when it comes to damming accusations it is doubly important.


the piece below is by a guy who has had more drug tests, than you will ever have lfting meets. If you knew him or his family you would realise that Adam does this for love not fame glory or money.

oh yeah almost forgot, 2005 world Champ, silver OG 2000, and 2004 and silvers worlds 2001,2003,2007

"Long Thoughts

I love when people with second hand information share those opinions as "truths" to the rest of the world. This is what I can tell you based on the changes I've seen in 13 years at the elite level as a thrower.

1) Drugs: I've seen steroids once in my entire career. I was working out before a throws only meet years ago. It was the former training camp of a now retired thrower. I was invited over to dinner at the meeting directors house and one of the hammer throwers gave me "tour." He made a point to stop at the refrigerator and open the bottom drawer. Inside was bunch of bottles containing drugs. He said it was left over from the former throwers last training camp there. It was bit weird, but that was over a 10 years ago.

One other time, I saw something suspicious. I walked out onto patio outside my room at another throws only meet to see another shot putter injecting himself with "B vitamins." I took his word for it, but certainly had doubts. Several years later he tested positive.

2) Drugs in the Sport Today: What I will say to you about this is the following:
there are countries that are compliant and non-compliant with the drug testing procedures. Spend some time looking them up. Conspiracy theories about cover ups are way over reported and probably based on a some truths from 1988. It just doesn't happen that way anymore. The sport has actually evolved a bit in compliant countries. ......

4) Strength levels: Look at the US high school sports system relative to every country in the world. We have high schools (and a lot of them) that have better training facilities than most countries (developed or not). There's been a proliferation of high school weight rooms and high school strength coaches. Of course access to a quality facility with a coach doesn't equal better athletes, but it does raise the average strength levels a bit at a younger age. .....

That's all,
Adam Nelson
Aug 2010


Last edited by Terry Gibbs : 11-24-2010 at 10:32 PM.
 
Old 11-25-2010, 10:54 AM   #12
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

I was not speaking about Adam Nelson in particular but of UST&F. They have a horrible doping record. I would like to see you deny what I said, not what you wish I said. Nelson has a good record, but I was not talking about Adam Nelson, now was I? Just as I am 100% positive that many members of UST&F were doped to the gills - based on numerous failed drug tests - so am I positive that many members were not. But there can be no denying UST&F itself has an embarassing history with doping, probably the worst in track & field in the world. So no, I am not a fan of UST&F.

Let's talk about Marion Jones. CJ Hunter. Tim Montgomery. Justin Gatlin. Randy Barnes. Alvin Harrison. Jerome Young. LaShawn Merritt. Torri Edwards. Let's talk about the 100 athletes including Carl Lewis who flunked their doping tests and were cleared for competition anyway. Do you think an entire organization should get a pass because one man didn't cheat?
 
Old 11-25-2010, 11:00 AM   #13
Todd Rehm
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

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Originally Posted by Terry Gibbs View Post
4) Strength levels: Look at the US high school sports system relative to every country in the world. We have high schools (and a lot of them) that have better training facilities than most countries (developed or not). There's been a proliferation of high school weight rooms and high school strength coaches. Of course access to a quality facility with a coach doesn't equal better athletes, but it does raise the average strength levels a bit at a younger age. .....

That's all,
Adam Nelson
Aug 2010
For comparison to what some of the folks on here have said about their high schools, here's one of the local high schools in metro Atlanta:

http://store.sorinex.com/Articles.asp?ID=189

http://www.fcpsports.com/football/bu...#Weight%20Room

and Flowery Branch HS, which is at the very outer edge of metro Atlanta, has a nice enough weight room that they host the CF Olympic Weightlifting certs and have a great S&C coach, C.J. Stockel, who coaches very high-level competitive Oly lifters.

A lot of the kids in these football programs will be disappointed when they get to college and see what the facilities there are like.
 
Old 11-25-2010, 12:36 PM   #14
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

The equipment situation is improving, no doubt. I think where the U.S. needs to go, however, is to stop equating a pile of stuff with good training. We need to put focus back into the coaching. We've got too many gyms filled with a great volume of gear and yet there won't be one person in sight who knows how to use a simple barbell. People who know how to snatch correctly are still rarer than hen's teeth, even though in the scheme of athletics the snatch is just not all that complicated. It's no small wonder more T&F folks don't snatch. It's like when I was in school some 30 years ago learning soccer in the U.S. It took some twenty years before the U.S. developed any competency at kicking a round ball, there just weren't enough good examples around to emulate.
 
Old 11-25-2010, 01:55 PM   #15
Jesse Gray
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

For a while I interned at UC Davis's S&C program. After the power lifts, the irst lift taught to most of the teams (football, basketball, e.g.) was the hang power snatch. We would later move on to the hang clean. In the strength program we pretty much always did lifts from the hang because it eliminates the first pull and all we really care about is developing violent, powerful hip extension anyways. When you have groups of 30-40 athletes at a time, it's just not practical to teach them all the finer points of oly lifting, particularly when you can get the desired results from just doing the hang.
With power athletes, the power snatch does tend to be used more often because you can move more weight through that burst of hip extension which translates to more power. When you start getting heavier with the power snatch, technique becomes a limiting factor more quickly and you begin to run the risk of shoulder/elbow injury.
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Old 11-25-2010, 04:10 PM   #16
Terry Gibbs
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

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It's no small wonder more T&F folks don't snatch.

sigh ....
 
Old 11-25-2010, 09:01 PM   #17
Chris Mason
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

How exactly is a snatch going to make anyone better at anything other than said exercise? In other words, how is it going to translate onto the field of play. Don't give me the explosive crap. It will only make one explosive at the snatch.
 
Old 11-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #18
Terry Gibbs
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

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How exactly is a snatch going to make anyone better at anything other than said exercise? In other words, how is it going to translate onto the field of play. Don't give me the explosive crap. It will only make one explosive at the snatch.
thank you... think you may be slaughtering the sacred cow though...
 
Old 11-25-2010, 11:39 PM   #19
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

The goal of anything in the weight room is to improve strength and power, which is why we use barbells and dumbbells to accomplish this right? The reason, IMO, why the Olympic lifts work is it trains someone to apply force in one direction, change directions, and apply force again in another direction all within a very brief period of time.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:05 AM   #20
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: Athletes and Snatch

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How exactly is a snatch going to make anyone better at anything other than said exercise? In other words, how is it going to translate onto the field of play. Don't give me the explosive crap. It will only make one explosive at the snatch.
Does an explosive box squat make a person stronger or more explosive at anything other than the box squat???

I dont think you can have it both ways, my friend.
 
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