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Old 07-09-2010, 08:41 PM   #21
Jared Ashley
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
Here's a fun little trick. Watch a news story about something you are familiar with. THen realize they get everything just as wrong or incomplete.
I'm a skydiver. About 50% of the time when someone gets hurt at a dropzone, the news van gets there before the ambulance... not joking.

Watched way too many news stories about way too many incidents, and almost always am appalled at the result... always sensationalized, usually not even factual.

What bugs me is most people still believe the news story over me in those instances.... "but the news said..." DUDE... IT HAPPENED 10 FEET FROM ME! "yeah, but the news said... but, but..."
 
Old 07-10-2010, 05:42 AM   #22
Angelina Kelly
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
I'm a skydiver. About 50% of the time when someone gets hurt at a dropzone, the news van gets there before the ambulance... not joking.

Watched way too many news stories about way too many incidents, and almost always am appalled at the result... always sensationalized, usually not even factual.

What bugs me is most people still believe the news story over me in those instances.... "but the news said..." DUDE... IT HAPPENED 10 FEET FROM ME! "yeah, but the news said... but, but..."

My Fox news story is that we used to have a TV at work that played the news and people would watch at lunch. Well it was 99% of the time turned to Fox news. The Fox news anchor was interviewing someone about an incident and actually told the person they were interviewing that they were wrong about the incident. The person ended up saying something like "I was there, I saw it, you weren't". I think at that point they went to commercial break or something. Before that point, I've never seen a news anchor say anything like that. I always thought they were supposed to be 'impartial' and all that.
 
Old 07-10-2010, 02:20 PM   #23
Scott A Martin
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Jason R O'Dell View Post
I just feel we're short on hate and half-truths.
I have no interest in Glen Beck and do not watch his show, but I have to agree with Ned, in that this thread has been dominated by ad homimem attacks on Beck and his "university."

With that said, this thread really has no place on this forum, in my humble opinion.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 07:07 AM   #24
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Scott A Martin View Post
I have no interest in Glen Beck and do not watch his show, but I have to agree with Ned, in that this thread has been dominated by ad homimem attacks on Beck and his "university."

With that said, this thread really has no place on this forum, in my humble opinion.
Actually an ad hominem argument is not always false, since character, conduct, and that person's motives can be entirely relevant to the issue (especially when that person himself makes millions through ad hominem arguments...).

That said, this thread should be closed.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #25
Scott A Martin
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Dimitri Dziabenko View Post
Actually an ad hominem argument is not always false, since character, conduct, and that person's motives can be entirely relevant to the issue (especially when that person himself makes millions through ad hominem arguments...).

That said, this thread should be closed.
An ad hominem is never relevant to an argument. If a person is arguing with an appeal to their own authority, e.g. I assert that x happened and put forth my grand integrity as proof, then you may point out my long well known reputation for being a liar. However, that is only an attack on the source and not on the argument itself. It says maybe we shouldn't put so much faith in my claim. However, it does nothing whatsoever to disprove that x happened. See the Wikipedia entry for more info on this.

But I digress. What happened here isn't even an ad hominem. The OP didn't make an argument. He just posted an announcement about Beck and a bunch of people who dislike Beck saw this as an opportunity to unleash their vitriol toward him.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #26
Shane Skowron
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Scott A Martin View Post
An ad hominem is never relevant to an argument. If a person is arguing with an appeal to their own authority, e.g. I assert that x happened and put forth my grand integrity as proof, then you may point out my long well known reputation for being a liar. However, that is only an attack on the source and not on the argument itself. It says maybe we shouldn't put so much faith in my claim. However, it does nothing whatsoever to disprove that x happened. See the Wikipedia entry for more info on this.

But I digress. What happened here isn't even an ad hominem. The OP didn't make an argument. He just posted an announcement about Beck and a bunch of people who dislike Beck saw this as an opportunity to unleash their vitriol toward him.
There's a difference between ad hominem and questioning someone's credentials.

I am questioning how some guy who doesn't even have an academic degree can attempt to educate us in a "university." I'm not saying people who don't have degrees don't have things to teach, but on matters of academia? No.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 12:34 PM   #27
Marcus Allen
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

Using Beck et al as anything other than entertainment is a mistake.
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #28
Antonio Roca
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

How about this against Beck and his university? Slightly better than an ad hominem.

1. An education ought to come from an unbiased source.
2. If an education comes from a biased source, it isn't rational to believe the source.
3. Glenn Beck is blatantly biased.
4. His university has three faculty members, who are also biased.
5. Therefore, it isn't rational to believe Glenn Beck or his faculty and you ought not get an education from them.


Of course, you could say everyone is biased, so why believe anyone? Why trust an education from another university? Well, other universities have the actual academia culture, which internalizes the costs of biased arguments and benefits of having unbiased arguments (ruined career for biased argument, money for research for good one). Much of what they teach is the result of this culture which seeks to mitigate (if not obliterate) bias. This requires many different individuals (each biased in their own way of course) for the whole process to work. Beck's university is too small for this to work.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 02:48 PM   #29
Ned Ferguson
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

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Originally Posted by Antonio Roca View Post
How about this against Beck and his university? Slightly better than an ad hominem.

1. An education ought to come from an unbiased source.
2. If an education comes from a biased source, it isn't rational to believe the source.
3. Glenn Beck is blatantly biased.
4. His university has three faculty members, who are also biased.
5. Therefore, it isn't rational to believe Glenn Beck or his faculty and you ought not get an education from them.


Of course, you could say everyone is biased, so why believe anyone? Why trust an education from another university? Well, other universities have the actual academia culture, which internalizes the costs of biased arguments and benefits of having unbiased arguments (ruined career for biased argument, money for research for good one). Much of what they teach is the result of this culture which seeks to mitigate (if not obliterate) bias. This requires many different individuals (each biased in their own way of course) for the whole process to work. Beck's university is too small for this to work.
If you think there is any such thing as an "unbiased education" then -- what can I say? -- you are woefully ignorant. A bias is simply a viewpoint, perspective, underlying philosophy. Every person and every institution has them.

Controlling purse strings with an institutional culture does not guarantee good results. In fact, it virtually guarantees corruption and the stifling of academic freedom.
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Last edited by Ned Ferguson : 07-11-2010 at 02:52 PM.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 03:10 PM   #30
Antonio Roca
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Re: Glen Becks $9 online university 9 classes

First of all, I'm sorry I offended you so much that you felt the need to call me woefully ignorant. I thought a nice, well-formed argument would be something to your liking.

More importantly, science seems to do pretty well at making true statements. Sure, there is the occasional mistake, but for the most part a biased conclusion is weeded out very quickly. The same could be said for other disciplines I think, such as mathematics or history. Of course, a biased conclusion isn't necessarily false, but it is more likely to be false and is justified on the wrong grounds.

Also, I don't see how internalizing costs guarantees corruption - in fact, my example of science in academia is an explicit counterexample to your claim. But maybe I am misunderstanding, care to explain?

Last edited by Antonio Roca : 07-11-2010 at 03:23 PM.
 
 


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