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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-11-2014, 02:07 PM   #21
David Meverden
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Re: best thing for fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Actually, Pearse is correct. Numerous metabolic ward studies have shown that the amount of fat lost on a hypocaloric diet is determined by the extent and duration of the energy deficit, not the composition of the diet.
This is mostly true, though shouldn't say "fat", it should instead read "amount of WEIGHT lost on a hypocaloric diet is determined by the extent and duration of the energy deficit, not the composition of the diet."

If you eat less than you use you will lose weight, but what tissue your body is breaking down during that time (lean tissue lost vs fat tissue lost) is influenced by dietary composition. Lower carb, especially down to ketogenic levels, shows a statistically significant better retention of lean tissue than high carb diets.

We've been through this before, let me find some of my past stuff:
Quote:
Effect on body composition and other parameters in obese young men of carbohydrate level of reduction diet. “Weight loss, fat loss, and percent weight loss as fat appeared to be inversely related to the level of carbohydrate in the isocaloric, isoprotein diets.”

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/24/3...urcetype=HWCIT (WFS)

They had 3 groups taking in 100, 60, and 30, grams of carbohydrates per day respectively, and there was a marked difference between the groups. It's an interesting study, though hampered by very small sample size. I would love to see one like it over a larger period of time with more people.
Quote:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/2/411 (WFS) Comparing higher protein diet to higher carbohydrate diet: "Weight loss in the Protein Group was partitioned to a significantly higher loss of fat/lean (6.3 ± 1.2 g/g) compared with the CHO Group (3.8 ± 0.9)"


http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1182009 (WFS) "A low-carbohydrate (LC), HP hypoenergetic diet could be the diet composition of choice for a weight-reducing regimen in obese hyperinsulinemic subjects."


http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/1/31 (WFS) "In women, total lean mass was significantly (P = 0.02) better preserved with the HP diet (-0.1 ± 0.3 kg) than with the SP diet (-1.5 ± 0.3 kg) . . Conclusion: Replacing carbohydrate with protein from meat, poultry, and dairy foods has beneficial metabolic effects and no adverse effects on markers of bone turnover or calcium excretion."
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:29 PM   #22
Jayne Whittingham
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Re: best thing for fat burn

I posted from the point of view of having lost a reasonable amount of weight over the last year. If you only cut calories, then usually any weight lost is regained at the end of the "diet". There is a lot of research about this now.

Losing body fat sustainably is a lot more complicated & therefore encouraging a more strategic approach than a simple "cut calories" statement is required.

I think the subsequent posters went on to expand my point more eloquently but eating different amounts throughout the week, with a small calorie deficit over the whole week, combined with training works well & in my case, has led to a better composition. I would be much lighter without the training but not as fit. Daily calorie restriction as traditionally advocated is dead miserable. (-:

Last edited by Jayne Whittingham : 01-11-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:44 PM   #23
Darryl Shaw
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Re: best thing for fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
This is mostly true, though shouldn't say "fat", it should instead read "amount of WEIGHT lost on a hypocaloric diet is determined by the extent and duration of the energy deficit, not the composition of the diet."

If you eat less than you use you will lose weight, but what tissue your body is breaking down during that time (lean tissue lost vs fat tissue lost) is influenced by dietary composition. Lower carb, especially down to ketogenic levels, shows a statistically significant better retention of lean tissue than high carb diets.
The amount of weight lost on a hypocaloric diet is influenced by the composition of the diet, but this is due to differences in glycogen stores and water balance seen when comparing low and high carbohydrate diets. This does not affect the rate of fat loss.

Composition of weight lost during short-term weight reduction: Metabolic responses of obese subjects to starvation and low-calorie ketogenic and nonketogenic diets.
Mei-Uih Yang and Theodore B Van Itallie. J Clin Invest. 1976 September; 58(3): 722–730.


Quote:
We've been through this before, let me find some of my past stuff:
The first link you posted didn't work and the other studies referenced have some limitations. I'm not going to quibble over their results though as it's generally accepted that a protein intake of 1-1.5g/kg/d helps preserve FFM during weight loss.

Edit: Found a link to that first study.

Effect on body composition and other parameters in obese young men of carbohydrate level of reduction diet.
Young CM, Am J Clin Nutr March 1971 vol. 24 no. 3 290-296.


If this doesn't work just Google the title, it'll be the first hit.

*All links wfs*

Last edited by Darryl Shaw : 01-11-2014 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:50 PM   #24
Abeli Shengelia
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Re: best thing for fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
This is mostly true, though shouldn't say "fat", it should instead read "amount of WEIGHT lost on a hypocaloric diet is determined by the extent and duration of the energy deficit, not the composition of the diet."

If you eat less than you use you will lose weight, but what tissue your body is breaking down during that time (lean tissue lost vs fat tissue lost) is influenced by dietary composition. Lower carb, especially down to ketogenic levels, shows a statistically significant better retention of lean tissue than high carb diets.

We've been through this before, let me find some of my past stuff:
so the best way to loss fat is low cab and high prot/fat diet+intensive training,am i right?
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:38 PM   #25
Jason Kelley
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Re: best thing for fat burn

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Originally Posted by Jayne Whittingham View Post
I posted from the point of view of having lost a reasonable amount of weight over the last year. If you only cut calories, then usually any weight lost is regained at the end of the "diet".
Obviously. And if you STOP doing exercise but maintain your kcal intake you will regain as well. i.e if you switch you energy balance back in the wrong direction you will regain.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:40 PM   #26
Jason Kelley
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Re: best thing for fat burn

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Originally Posted by Abeli Shengelia View Post
so the best way to loss fat is low cab and high prot/fat diet+intensive training,am i right?
Calorie controlled diet with "enough" protein and fat with intensive weight training would be how I would put it.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:42 PM   #27
Darryl Shaw
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Re: best thing for fat burn

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Originally Posted by Abeli Shengelia View Post
so the best way to loss fat is low cab and high prot/fat diet+intensive training,am i right?
No.

Low-Carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause Mortality: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Observational Studies.
Noto H et al. PLoS One. 2013; 8(1): e55030.
(wfs)

Excerpt from paper -

"Given the facts that low-carbohydrate diets are likely unsafe and that calorie restriction has been demonstrated to be effective in weight loss regardless of nutritional composition, [36] it would be prudent not to recommend low-carbohydrate diets for the time being."
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:57 PM   #28
Abeli Shengelia
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Re: best thing for fat burn

i see,then what percentage of carb,fat and prot u would recommend guys?
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:12 PM   #29
Jason Kelley
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Re: best thing for fat burn

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
No.

Low-Carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause Mortality: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Observational Studies.
Noto H et al. PLoS One. 2013; 8(1): e55030.
(wfs)

Excerpt from paper -

"Given the facts that low-carbohydrate diets are likely unsafe and that calorie restriction has been demonstrated to be effective in weight loss regardless of nutritional composition, [36] it would be prudent not to recommend low-carbohydrate diets for the time being."
Also,

"However, the
observational studies were limited and moderately heterogeneous"


Swings and roundabouts I think on that one. I am not sure why low consumption of a non-essential macro would be considered dangerous in isolation.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:03 PM   #30
Kiel Stuart
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Re: best thing for fat burn

It's like a car and fuel, different fuel sources will have different combustion characteristics etc. but ultimately the amount of fuel in the tank is determined by what you put in and what you use.
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