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Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

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Old 10-08-2002, 11:40 AM   #1
Robert Wolf
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I am curious how evryone is approaching their macronutrient consumption. I follow a very tight paleo plan ( no legumes, grains, or dairy) but I tend to keep my main carb feedings to post work out. At this time I will also have a good amount of protein and I may have 1-3 small meals like this poost workout. Later in the day I shift to protein and greens with a bit of olive oil to bring up the calories. This is not entirely consistent with the zone recomendations but I can not make a good arguement for consuming carbs and fat at the same time (blunted insulin response...yes...but any insulin response you do have is onening up the adipocytes to the fat you also ingested.) So any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
robb
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Old 10-08-2002, 12:37 PM   #2
Dan John
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Good to see you here, Robert. It is funny how we keep bumping into each other on the web.

I have been trying a much more "seasonal" approach to fruit intake, trying only to eat the fruits that are in-season. Yes, it is cheaper, but it seems to work. I don't think "I get fat on fruit," but I try, like you, to get the bulk of my calories from meat, fish, eggs, and olive oil, then fill on veggies. When I do this, my skin seems to look much better and I train very well.

So, my carb intake is quite low, most of the time. I don't worry much about post training, but I follow Dr. Tom Fahey's advice on protein before training. It seems to work for me. I don't trust any of the bodybuilder information on post or pre eating as it is usually a supplement company behind the idea.

How is your education going?
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Old 10-08-2002, 02:43 PM   #3
Robert Wolf
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Hi Dan! The past two years I have followed the "Lights Out..." protocol of very low carbs during the winter. It worked well but I am doing much more "cardio" these days following crossfit and doing various martial arts. I seem to require a bit more carbs for that. I think also that I get into a bit of a hypo caloric state and which is not good.

I had to leave colorado about four months ago. The testing lab I was working for was dumping hazardous waste in the stream near by...when my co-worker and I turned them to the EPA we found ourselves a bit light in the employment area! It was incredible to work with professor Cardain even for that short time. I am working at the Fred hutchinson Cancer research Center in Seattle and really enjoying it. This morning the grand rounds for MD's was a talk on "Exercise effects on prevention and prognosis in breast cancer". The talk was good...the people who exercise the most and hardest have the best prevention...IGF, insulin, estrogen are all problems and related to sedantism and hyperinsulinemia...At the end of the talk I asked the presenter if she had heard of Loren Cordains work on paleolithic diet and hunter/gatherer exercise patterns or just the general concept of applying evolutionary biology to exploring the disease process. She said no but that it sounded interesting. After the talk I had about twelve people talking to me about this stuff! We have so much information but few people are using the correct frame of reference to make something of it. Your site continues to impress BTW...this place, John Askeem's site and your work are the best rescources on the whole net.
Take care!
Robb
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Old 10-08-2002, 09:06 PM   #4
Frank C Ollis
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I do not follow the normal eating patterns for athletes, but I try to apply the paleo concept to the actual food that I eat. I do the outside ring of the grocery store thing, no preserved foods. The obvious exception being MRE's, but being a Marine gives me little choice about that. What are your opinions on juicing? At the risk of sounding like a hippie, I love fresh juice!
You guys are probably going to scream and yell about how terrible it is, but I follow Ori Hofmeklers Warrior Diet. The whole overeating undereating thing. It works for me. It allows for protein consumption post workout.
I will admit that it is not a diet for everyone, it is a 100% willpower thing. But for me, the results, combined with CrossFit have been amazing.
Any other CrossFit guys doing this diet, or am I the oddball?
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Old 10-09-2002, 08:24 AM   #5
Robert Wolf
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I am totally the catabolic kid...if I do much in the way of caloric restriction I am peeling off 10 lbs of muscle in no time. I know a number of people do pretty well on the WD...I do not think it would fly for me however. I sued to juice but have not for some time. IMO if one is juicing almost exclusively vegetables the sugar and insulin spike should not be bad...fruit, carrots stuff like that I think could be problematic.
Robb
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Old 10-09-2002, 08:39 AM   #6
Frank C Ollis
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On an interesting side note!
SInce going on the WD, I have not had even a sniffle. Could be a coincidence though.
We are on opposite ends of the see-saw, I cut down from almost 250, to 205, sounds like you are coming the other way.
I also recently had a full physical, and my BP, cholesterol, and resting heart rate are all at amazing levels.
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Old 10-10-2002, 11:50 AM   #7
Robert Wolf
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Frank- that makes sense on a few levels:
1) eating paleo means no foods with molecular mimicry problems.
2)likely better n-3/n-6 fatty acid profile (antiinflamatory).
3) Caloric restriction modulates immune function decreasing autoimmunity.

When my girlfriend started eating more paleo "she was eating pretty damn well before) her chronic years long runny nose stopped. Her raynauds went into remission as well...this is an autoimmune condition affecting the vascular system.
Robb
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Old 11-23-2002, 01:30 AM   #8
Tyler Hass
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I was sent this article on Paleo Diets: http://www.msnbc.com/news/838437.asp?vts=112220022300
The author is not in favor of Paleolithic nutrition. Further searching on the web led me to a few more of her articles, including one on training. She seems to embrace weight training, but as usual, gets it wrong. She recommends light weight, high rep lifting to go along with the usual cardio recommendations. Way too much low-intensity if you ask me. If you've seen my Power Curve Training article at Girevik Magazine, you will know how I feel about low intensity exercise:-)
I'm looking forward to hearing what the rest of you think of this article. Unfortunately, she is so vague it's difficult to tell what she is critiquing.
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Old 11-23-2002, 07:41 AM   #9
Robert Wolf
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This is a bit of a non-answer...but this article is typical of, if not a thesis of all the flawed assumptions regarding nutrition. She makes a point about exercise and how important it is....obvviously that is true and on a level she will never understand. Gene expression is vitally tied to activity patterns...if one is not exercising in accordance with our genetic makeup. Are eurpoeans, most asians, and really most other people in the world generally healthier than amaericans...yes, that is easy to establish. Are these people healthier than huntergatherers, no...and again this is easy to establish. It kills me when one can go to an anthropology department and virtually the whole department will agree that our paleolithic ancestors and modern HG's are/were healthier than we (but these anthropologists understand little about nutrition). Go to a nutrition department and we are told to embrace food which causes auto immunity, nutritient deficiencies, and increased pathogen load to say nothing of syndrome X....and it has never been a part of our evolution other than the past 10,000 years...I dont know how to say this and not sound like a smart ***, but to ignore evolutionary biology and the lifeway to which we are evolved is a remarkable bit of self deception. I have writen to people like the author of this article, citing studies and pointing out flaws in their position (as nicely as I can!) but I NEVER get a response other than "interesting".
Renea Lebeouf, professor in pathobiology and Nutrition at the UW was talking to a friend of mine a few weeks ago. My friend asked if Renea had done any lower carb, paleo type experiments on the mice she studies. Renea said that they had indeed done some experiments and although what they had was to preliminary to publish...she changed how she and her family eats (preliminary enough to feed ones CHILDREN differently...)
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Old 11-24-2002, 05:45 PM   #10
David Wood
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Guys:

A question, and a horrifying story:

(1) The question: How do you put mice on a "paleo" diet? I (perhaps naively) assume that they've always been vegetarian? Do you just exclude grains from their diet (leaving them with seeds, roughage, etc.)? (I'm not trying to be a smartass here, honest.)

(2) The story: I just finished reading the book "Deadly Feasts" by Richard Rhodes, on the prion theroy of BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy, aka "mad cow disease") and its human variant, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

I didn't really want to read it . . . I figured going in that I probably wouldn't want to eat meat again by the time I finished.

I was right . . . but the story reported in that book (and I realize that the story is still quite incomplete, and that particular author may have got parts of it wrong) is worse than I anticipated going in. Not only beef is implicated; pretty much any mammalian meat source, and conceivably poultry and dairy, also has the risk of being a route of infection.

Actually, we know so little about prions (the hypothesized cause of these diseases) that some researchers suggest that (this is where it goes over the top) even vegetarians are at risk if their organic gardens were fertilized with chicken droppings (a common source of nitrogenous fertilizers).

So, as I said, I figured going in that I wouldn't want to be eating beef by the time I came out. (That's OK; I don't eat much anyway.) I didn't expect to hear the bad news potential in ALL meat.

The only good news in this story is that it's not meat per se that is implicated . . . it's factory-farmed meat, particularly meat that has had any component of its feed derived from other slaughtered animals.

The moral: if you're gonna eat meat (i.e., paleo), maybe it's *really* time to locate a source of genuine "range-fed" or "grass-fed" beef.

Dan, I think you indicated in some previous post that you knew of such sources. If so, can those sources be shared?

David
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