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Old 04-11-2008, 12:01 PM   #221
Sean McMaster
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Good points, Jeffrey. I had my say about vaccines on the first page of the thread, and I have been a silent observer since then, but I am so glad you brought up breastfeeding I just had to chime in again. Breastfeeding is one of the best things you can do for your child's health.
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:44 PM   #222
Jeffrey White
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Originally Posted by Sean McMaster View Post
Good points, Jeffrey. I had my say about vaccines on the first page of the thread, and I have been a silent observer since then, but I am so glad you brought up breastfeeding I just had to chime in again. Breastfeeding is one of the best things you can do for your child's health.
Thanks. I went back and re-read your comments and it appears we have similar values in how choose to raise our kiddos.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 02:14 PM   #223
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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wow interesting debate.

i've got a one year old. we do some vaccinations, we don't do others. I haven't seen (or remember through all these pages), someone suggesting that.

There seems to be an "all or nothing argument" going on.

I do wonder...of all the pro-vaccination people here..do you or did you or do you plan on breastfeeding your child? I don't doubt whatsoever that the chemical and fake food of formula contributes to the varying problems with youth.

I find it interesting what many of us (meaning Americans or "westerners") pick and chose when it comes to health. Breastfeeding's benefits are well-documented, yet the majority of American's don't do it (mainly because they sexualize it, which is just weird), yet they place a priority on vaccines. That I find interesting.

All I will say is this: Our daughter has not had the MMR vaccination and a few others...she has been and still is breastfeed. We' don't use binkies or pacifiers. We make her own food...she doesn't eat Gerber baby food and all the other junk out on the market. It's boobjuice and veggies and fruit for her. And you know what? She seems so advanced for her age. I know, parental-bias right? But seriously these other kids her age are like lumps of coal. little zombies. She crawls/walks/runs around points at things and is always smiling and having the time of her life. I don't see that in the other one year olds we are around. I'm not trying to be on a soapbox or anything, its just that, while I think there are concerns over vaccinations...there are many many many other things more important that the majority of Americans pay no mind to when raising kids.
Our child was breastfed, weaned on veggies and fruit, very tall for her age (98th percentile), very alert, very healthy and vaccinated with no side affects. Eventually we had to add formula milk to the mix because she was so hungry and my wife wasn't providing enough for her to eat. Now she has breast, bottle and solid. She's not sure which is best. although pears and courgettes (zucchini) are favourites at the moment.

Ii also agree that breast is best and society should give more breaks and opportunities to mums to nurse. I 100% concur that there is more to a babies health than a vaccination schedule.

For her vaccine wasn't an issue, maybe because she had a very healthy, maybe because of good genetics (her mum) who knows. Irrespective she didn't even have some of the short term side affects except foe a few tears from the needle. We are social animals and although as a parent I would prefer not to expose my child to any risk sometime for the greater good of society sometimes this is necessary.

Reread Brandon's last post very pertinent not just to this debate but to many of the topics we discuss on this board.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 02:30 PM   #224
Derek Maffett
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Jeffrey, I agree that there are many things that can be done for children's health far more important than vaccinations. I also agree that certain vaccinations may have better reward/risk ratios and might be worth risking. As an example, I would say that MMR vaccine would probably not be worth the risk (the diseases seem rather mild, with serious complications rare - the vaccine risks, according to Brandon's report, seem less but with some unknown/uncomfirmed factors. At least measles has been around long enough that there is no contention regarding it's dangers should you contract it) whereas a grown woman might take the rubella vaccine to ensure her children's safety. Of course, that's just my own opinion.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 02:46 PM   #225
Brandon Oto
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Don't forget the 25% chance of miscarriage with mumps in early pregnancy as well.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #226
Robert Pierce
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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The biggest difference between looking at this personally and looking at this publicly is the numbers. I'm only one person but the population is million, so something that's good odds for me, like .001% chance of catching a disease, is unacceptable for the population at large. .001% of 300 million (US population) is 3,000 people, and while they're probably not me they're going to be SOMEONE. So that's the outlook the public health folks take, and it's the only reason that some of these numbers (like some tiny fraction of people getting encephalitis, autism, or growing an extra eye) matter the slightest hoot. Hell, I'd take some of these odds in exchange for a good beer, but at the population scale that would be disastrous.
I think the attitude the public health folks take is this: if 1) the risks of disease versus adverse vaccine event are equally low in a vaccinated population; 2) the vaccine protects those who generate an adequate immune response; 3) the herd immunity also protects those who cannot receive the vaccine and those who generate an inadequate immune response; and 4) disease rates are likely to rise (to whatever level) if vaccination penetration drops below a certain threshold, then it makes sense to keep the population vaccinated.

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We are social animals and although as a parent I would prefer not to expose my child to any risk sometime for the greater good of society sometimes this is necessary.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 03:44 PM   #227
Derek Maffett
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Don't forget the 25% chance of miscarriage with mumps in early pregnancy as well.
Not really my place to say - such chances only apply to women and they can make that choice for themselves when it becomes relevant, which it isn't (or at least shouldn't be) for young children.

Robert, the subject enters into what can be done for the public good. Should it be left up to the individual, or should the government step in (it's pretty much the only organization that would be willing and able to do such a thing) and force everyone to vaccinate? I am completely against such an action, of course, but that is a discussion for another time.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #228
Justin Shipley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

assuming that the only thing standing between human health and going to hell in a handbasket is a shot is simplistic.
Even assuming vaccination is safe and effective, attempting to build a healthy immune system in a child with vaccination as it's foundation is like having across-the-board steroid use as a requirement for any exercise regimen.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 05:33 PM   #229
Justin Shipley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

as a kid in the 70's if measles, mumps or chicken pox were doing the rounds, mothers would ensure their kids were exposed to these ailments ASAP. little brothers and sisters who missed the last round of these diseases were deliberately exposed for two reasons; minimising disruptions to the household/classroom routine through consecutive bouts of illness in each kid, one-by-one- better they all get it at the same time and get over and back to normal asap; and secondly because the risks associated with catching these diseases later in puberty or adulthood carried grave consequences were well known, and because the illnesses came round every 2-5 years, better to get it now when there's no danger than later when there is. The horror stories were wel known and these were the ways to avoid them- vaccination was unheard of and would have been laughed at.
 
Old 04-11-2008, 07:30 PM   #230
Justin Shipley
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Robert Pierce; this line of argument from those at the top of the vaccination pyramid is cute in the extreme, and essential to promote for the continuing success of vaccination and it's attendant commercial benefits. A circular form is reasoning is essential or else doubt would creep in and they would have shot themselves in the foot economically speaking. If vaccination were free and done out of the best interests of humanity in general AND I could find no holes in it from the perspective of good intentions THEN i'd be inclined to temper my suspicion alittle. But nowhere near totally...
 
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