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Old 02-05-2014, 01:57 PM   #21
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
But your not explaining why you have a problem with it??
what's wrong with it is that it is not good programming. trying to explain to you exactly why is not really something that can be done quickly in a way you will understand. just take our word for it. but the short answer is that using major compound movements, doing them heavy, and then doing them "for time" or for "AMRAP", etc, is a terrible idea for the average person. you can't lift enough to improve strength and it is too heavy to really improve conditioning. it is also too much for most people to recover from and will limit you getting max results from the main lift you did. it is a great way to overtrain and to get really sore and eventually injured.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:00 PM   #22
Miles Roberts
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
My head hurts.

- Mark
Why? All he asked was this one, simple question.

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What i want to know is this, could i follow all pros routine in the mornings 3x a week and continue my current programme each evening or would this be too much and am i best to completely drop what iam doing and follow all pros on its own and just do hit on my off days?


Keith, from the sounds of it, your main goal is to look like a body builder. If that's true, follow a proven body building routine and eat/lift/sleep as recommended.

It almost seems like you're arguing with everything everyone suggests because you're waiting for someone to tell you something that isn't true. I say do what you ENJOY doing, and if it isn't bringing you the results you want after committing several months to it, change it up.

Last edited by Miles Roberts; 02-05-2014 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:09 PM   #23
Jeff Simon
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
But your not explaining why you have a problem with it??
In my opinion, that's far too much volume of heavy compound lifts in a single workout.

I dont see how something like that should ever be recommended.

I welcome someone's opinion as to why I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:13 PM   #24
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
what's wrong with it is that it is not good programming. trying to explain to you exactly why is not really something that can be done quickly in a way you will understand. just take our word for it. but the short answer is that using major compound movements, doing them heavy, and then doing them "for time" or for "AMRAP", etc, is a terrible idea for the average person. you can't lift enough to improve strength and it is too heavy to really improve conditioning. it is also too much for most people to recover from and will limit you getting max results from the main lift you did. it is a great way to overtrain and to get really sore and eventually injured.
Well this is another reason iam not comfortable with sticking to my current programme, i feel the same way, i dont think it was a good idea either but i cant explain why as such, It really took the good out of me yesterday, in Fact i was so wrecked after it that i needed today to recover and didnt go training today!! The metcons are destroying me, well more often then not they do anyway
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #25
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
In my opinion, that's far too much volume of heavy compound lifts in a single workout.

I dont see how something like that should ever be recommended.

I welcome someone's opinion as to why I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something.

Does that depend on how heavy we went or is it just bad programming full stop? It was prob the toughest metcon i have personally done since joining anyway so iam sure there is truth in what your saying

Oh and iam not trying to be a bodybuilder to the guy that suggested i was, i want to be big but NOT huge

Last edited by Keith Molloy; 02-05-2014 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:27 PM   #26
Jeff Simon
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
Does that depend on how heavy we went or is it just bad programming full stop? It was prob the toughest metcon i have personally done since joining anyway so iam sure there is truth in what your saying
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Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
It's the 5x5 BS/FS/PP/HC after a 5/3/1 + 5x5 DL I have a problem with.
I would never consider the above to be a metcon. I see that, as Andrew said, to be a direct route to burnout and/or injury.


I'm not here to knock anyone's goals. If your goal is to get "big", I hope you define that more clearly and then achieve it.

I would really recommend re-assessing your strategy. People make significant progress on just 5/3/1 by itself. Others mix in some 8-12 minute metcons with the 5/3/1 and make significant progress. From what I understand though, those 8-12 minute metcons are conditioning-based, relying on mostly bodyweight work (maybe, some rower, kettlebell, prowler, etc.)((someone please correct that if wrong)).

By all means, do what works for you, but I dont know if you've given it enough time to form an opinion.


What you did last night, I would personally avoid at all costs.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:46 PM   #27
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
I would never consider the above to be a metcon. I see that, as Andrew said, to be a direct route to burnout and/or injury.


I'm not here to knock anyone's goals. If your goal is to get "big", I hope you define that more clearly and then achieve it.

I would really recommend re-assessing your strategy. People make significant progress on just 5/3/1 by itself. Others mix in some 8-12 minute metcons with the 5/3/1 and make significant progress. From what I understand though, those 8-12 minute metcons are conditioning-based, relying on mostly bodyweight work (maybe, some rower, kettlebell, prowler, etc.)((someone please correct that if wrong)).

By all means, do what works for you, but I dont know if you've given it enough time to form an opinion.


What you did last night, I would personally avoid at all costs.
Slightly off topic but if i was to suggest 2 workouts, both involved quitting this current one! Workout 1 was to train full body 3x a week and do crossfit/hit training the other 2 days

or workout 2, train full body 3x a week but do metcon/hit the same day, maybe later in the evening and use the days inbetween for recovery

Which would be optimal?
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:52 PM   #28
Jeff Enge
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

If you don't like what your trainer is having you do enough to question it this much, then that program is obviously not for you.

What you need to do is twofold.

1. Quantify some goals. Getting "big but not huge" is all well and good, but what does that mean to you? Performance-wise, what do you want to be able to do?

2. Take those goals and do some research. There are plenty of good programs out there for the general things it look like your looking for. CrossFit-wise, read up on CrossFit Football. General strength and conditioning (that can look a lot like CF if you set it up right), find and read GSLP, 5/3/1, Texas Method, all sorts of established programs that you can decide what works best for you.

Don't try to secret squirrel a program by yourself based on vague goals.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:01 PM   #29
Jeff Simon
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
Slightly off topic but if i was to suggest 2 workouts, both involved quitting this current one! Workout 1 was to train full body 3x a week and do crossfit/hit training the other 2 days

or workout 2, train full body 3x a week but do metcon/hit the same day, maybe later in the evening and use the days inbetween for recovery

Which would be optimal?
I really think Jeff said it best:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
If you don't like what your trainer is having you do enough to question it this much, then that program is obviously not for you.

What you need to do is twofold.

1. Quantify some goals. Getting "big but not huge" is all well and good, but what does that mean to you? Performance-wise, what do you want to be able to do?

2. Take those goals and do some research. There are plenty of good programs out there for the general things it look like your looking for. CrossFit-wise, read up on CrossFit Football. General strength and conditioning (that can look a lot like CF if you set it up right), find and read GSLP, 5/3/1, Texas Method, all sorts of established programs that you can decide what works best for you.

Don't try to secret squirrel a program by yourself based on vague goals.
I would suggest reading, or perhaps re-reading, the philosophy behind 5/3/1. There isnt a bunch of extra stuff tacked on to it, and that's by design. Same with CFFB, GSLP, etc.

I'm just getting the impression that you want too much, too soon, and I'm really advocating that you exhibit some patience. Too much/too soon will lead to injury and burnout far sooner than it leads to results.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:27 PM   #30
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
If you don't like what your trainer is having you do enough to question it this much, then that program is obviously not for you.

What you need to do is twofold.

1. Quantify some goals. Getting "big but not huge" is all well and good, but what does that mean to you? Performance-wise, what do you want to be able to do?

2. Take those goals and do some research. There are plenty of good programs out there for the general things it look like your looking for. CrossFit-wise, read up on CrossFit Football. General strength and conditioning (that can look a lot like CF if you set it up right), find and read GSLP, 5/3/1, Texas Method, all sorts of established programs that you can decide what works best for you.

Don't try to secret squirrel a program by yourself based on vague goals.
I get you guys, I just dont play sports so iam not in it for performance, i just want to look better naked, feel better and feel somewhat fitter, iam pretty unfit so would be nice to be able to do something physical for some time without feeling like iam gonna die ha
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