CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2011, 11:13 PM   #1
Daniel Frankel
Member Daniel Frankel is offline
 
Daniel Frankel's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Thornhill  ON Canada
Posts: 1,508
Some Starting Strength Questions?

What exactly is the definite Starting Strength program? Like I understand the workout A/B thing, but what about reps? how do I know if I should be doing 5-5-5-5-5, 3-3-3-3-3, 1-1-1-1-1-1, or 5/3/1 (what is the last exactly?), and should it vary depending on the exercise?

And it should be (fomr strongest to weakest)
Deadlift>Squat>Bench>Power clean (bench greater by a tiny bit)>Press
Correct?

Finally, would it be overtraining to do SS in the morning, and then a metcon (maybe 15-25 mins, fairly high intensity) in the afternoon/evening? I want to get stronger, but I want to keep my anareobic capacity/my muscle endurance
__________________
Log | Youtube | M/18/69kg/5'6" | VO2 Max: 55.3 ml/kg/min | BS 163kg | FS 142kg | Sn 101kg | CJ 122kg |
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 11:18 PM   #2
Shane Skowron
Member Shane Skowron is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Queens  NY
Posts: 3,800
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

You can order the book on Amazon. That's where the program comes from. You may have heard about 5/3/1 because it's a program by Jim Wendler, entirely different than Starting Strength.

If you search the other threads on Starting Strength, the opinions on overtraining with SS+metcons are already on the forum.

As far as lifts in that order, sometimes people have it that way, sometimes they don't. Nothing correct or incorrect about it.

Last edited by Shane Skowron : 03-02-2011 at 11:20 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 04:05 AM   #3
CJ Kim
Banned CJ Kim is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 134
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Frankel View Post
What exactly is the definite Starting Strength program? Like I understand the workout A/B thing, but what about reps? how do I know if I should be doing 5-5-5-5-5, 3-3-3-3-3, 1-1-1-1-1-1, or 5/3/1 (what is the last exactly?), and should it vary depending on the exercise?

And it should be (fomr strongest to weakest)
Deadlift>Squat>Bench>Power clean (bench greater by a tiny bit)>Press
Correct?

Finally, would it be overtraining to do SS in the morning, and then a metcon (maybe 15-25 mins, fairly high intensity) in the afternoon/evening? I want to get stronger, but I want to keep my anareobic capacity/my muscle endurance
Yeah, it sounds like you are confusing two different programs -- Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and 5/3/1 by Jim Wendler.

But my question to you is why don't you just try Crossfit. It is a strength & conditioning program, after all. And that sounds like what you are looking for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 04:13 AM   #4
Lee A Koboroff
Member Lee A Koboroff is offline
 
Lee A Koboroff's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Burpengary  QLD Australia
Posts: 94
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Frankel View Post
Finally, would it be overtraining to do SS in the morning, and then a metcon (maybe 15-25 mins, fairly high intensity) in the afternoon/evening? I want to get stronger, but I want to keep my anareobic capacity/my muscle endurance
IF this is what you want to do - have a look at CF football. It uses a similar linear strength progression to SS (slightly more drawn out to provide more recovery) coupled with short intense metcons.
__________________
Train, eat, sleep, repeat.
M / 30 / 93kg / 178cm
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 05:30 AM   #5
Tamara Cohen
Member Tamara Cohen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Asheville  NC
Posts: 4,392
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

If you want to do Starting Strength, please purchase and read "Starting Strength."

If you want to do 5/3/1, please purchase and read "5/3/1."

Please do not be the person who thinks he is doing either program just because you read about them on the internet. The books exist for a reason.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:54 AM   #6
Jared Ashley
Member Jared Ashley is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 1,550
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
If you want to do Starting Strength, please purchase and read "Starting Strength."

If you want to do 5/3/1, please purchase and read "5/3/1."

Please do not be the person who thinks he is doing either program just because you read about them on the internet. The books exist for a reason.
have to agree.

At the very least, the starting strength wiki (google it) will tell you the basics of the SS program, why it works, how to use it, and even has some instruction on the lifts. enough information for someone familiar with the lifts and with training in general to understand the program... I'm sure the book has much, much more information, though I admit I haven't read it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
Erich Anderson
Member Erich Anderson is offline
 
Erich Anderson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 162
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

if you google starting strength, this is the first response that comes up

http://****************.wikia.com/wi..._Strength_Wiki wfs, sub in s t a r t i n g s t r e n g t h where the ** are

it doesn't have anywhere near as much info as the book but if you want a 30k foot view of SS look here. read it twice, lots of your basic questions will be answered.

there's countless threads of people who want to do SS w/ short metcons. The responses are all the same. Don't do it. And if you do, don't say "but i did SS, what went wrong?" when you don't get the gains you wanted.

Can't count the number of times I've read Tamara's responses saying this, in one form or another. Pretty sure she told me the same thing at one point
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 08:21 AM   #8
Michael Dowling
Member Michael Dowling is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Goshen  NY
Posts: 733
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Frankel View Post
Finally, would it be overtraining to do SS in the morning, and then a metcon (maybe 15-25 mins, fairly high intensity) in the afternoon/evening? I want to get stronger, but I want to keep my anareobic capacity/my muscle endurance
this is what i do a couple times a week because of my wifes schedule. i don't have time at lunch to do more than the WOD and warmup, so i come in at like 6:00 AM and do a simple strength program (a PDF someone linked me to here), then the WOD at lunch. over-training will vary person to person.

i've found (in the short time i've been doing CF and lifting at the same time) that i feel much better before, during, and after the crossfit workouts if i lift earlier in the day or before the WOD. maybe my old bones need the lifting warmup or something, not sure but if i lift heavy for a few sets before a WOD i seem to be better at everything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 09:11 AM   #9
Robert Fabsik
Member Robert Fabsik is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kildeer  IL
Posts: 2,233
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Frankel View Post
Finally, would it be overtraining to do SS in the morning, and then a metcon (maybe 15-25 mins, fairly high intensity) in the afternoon/evening? I want to get stronger, but I want to keep my anareobic capacity/my muscle endurance
Daniel--if your goal is primarily strength, I'd focus on a basic program like Starting Strength or 5/3/1 for a cycle or two and then start hitting the metcons again. If you still want to do the metcons, then you'll potentially slow your strength gains (which is fine if your goal is more strenght enduracne/metcon based). Then you might want to try CFFB, CF Strength Bias or CF conjugate method.

You could do your own hybrid of Starting Strength and metcons, but you have to be real careful about the overtraining. If you don't make gains with a hybrid, many will tell you then you aren't doing pure Starting Strength and to drop the metcons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Dowling View Post
this is what i do a couple times a week because of my wifes schedule. i don't have time at lunch to do more than the WOD and warmup, so i come in at like 6:00 AM and do a simple strength program (a PDF someone linked me to here), then the WOD at lunch. over-training will vary person to person.

i've found (in the short time i've been doing CF and lifting at the same time) that i feel much better before, during, and after the crossfit workouts if i lift earlier in the day or before the WOD. maybe my old bones need the lifting warmup or something, not sure but if i lift heavy for a few sets before a WOD i seem to be better at everything.
Michael--since I've finally settled into my home gym this past year, I've found myself being able to break my workouts over the day llike you with maybe strength in the AM and a WOD in the evening or some sled dragging. I thought I'd find myself waist deep in overtraining, but I feel almost better when I can split things up. I've been splitting so when I get home and workout after dinner, I'm not in the gym for an hour pushing my bed time far back.

Has anyone else felt two mini workouts a day are better than one long one?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 09:28 AM   #10
Trey Williams
Member Trey Williams is offline
 
Trey Williams's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chattanooga  TN
Posts: 91
Re: Some Starting Strength Questions?

Three times a week I do starting strength in the morning and a metcon or ultimate frisbee practice in the evening. I give myself two off days a week (similar to Crossfit Football) and I don't feel overtrained.

Also, I read a study from UCLA (I think) suggesting that, for strength training to have optimal effect, no endurance work should be done for 4 hours after it. I'll try to find the link.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting Strength Questions Dustin Standel Fitness 85 09-23-2010 06:14 PM
Starting Strength Questions Greg Light Fitness 5 10-29-2008 03:27 PM
Starting Strength Questions Joe Bernard Fitness 10 04-03-2008 01:28 PM
Starting strength - some questions Simon Bowley Fitness 5 02-10-2008 04:48 PM
Starting Strength--questions Gary Fang Starting 11 11-11-2007 09:28 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.