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Old 07-09-2010, 07:56 PM   #1
Justin Z. Smith
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Arm workouts

Suggest you do more, especially those interested in "paleo":

http://news.discovery.com/archaeolog...rong-arms.html

(safe for work, family, etc.)

Justin
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:47 PM   #2
Nolan Womack
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Re: Arm workouts

Seems to me that we all need to just eat meat and stab beasts with spears.

I wonder though, how long did they live, cause seeing as eating an all meat diet would naturally produce excessive amounts of nitrogen, which in at least modern day humans damages the kidneys/liver and can lead to cancer. Anybody know why/how they were able to handle it back then?
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:14 PM   #3
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Arm workouts

"would naturally produce excessive amounts of nitrogen, which in at least modern day humans damages the kidneys/liver and can lead to cancer"

COme again?
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:24 PM   #4
Scott A Martin
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Re: Arm workouts

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Originally Posted by Nolan Womack View Post
Seems to me that we all need to just eat meat and stab beasts with spears.

I wonder though, how long did they live, cause seeing as eating an all meat diet would naturally produce excessive amounts of nitrogen, which in at least modern day humans damages the kidneys/liver and can lead to cancer. Anybody know why/how they were able to handle it back then?
In most cases they likely got eaten by a mountain lion, or froze to death, or starved to death, or died from an infection that today would be treated with a simple course of antibiotics long before those types of problems would develop.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:33 PM   #5
Nolan Womack
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Re: Arm workouts

Jamie, I'm sure you're aware of this but I'll explain myself more clearly (hopefully).

All the macronutrients have Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen, but only Protein has Nitrogen. When someone goes on, let's say the Atkin's Diet (mostly meat), their body goes into a Ketogenic state where it starts burning fat for Ketogen instead of Glycogen for energy (which burns excess fat off rather quickly), however, when one stays in said state, they become saturated with high levels of Nitrogen because their body is still only using the Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen for energy. High levels of Nitrogen in your body isn't a good thing, and it effects your kidneys/liver among other things, and can even lead towards terminal effects such as Cancer. Does that make sense? If not, I'll email my professor and see if he can explain it better. (Some terms might be wrong, it was a long time ago I was told about this, but the concept of the body not using the Nitrogen from Protein for energy, and only having so many other uses for it, that when all you eat is meat, you overload your body with Nitrogen, still is valid. Unless of course this has been proven obsolete).

My guess would be that since back then we've adapted to a diet where there are more plants, and that maybe back then they could handle, which may be the reason for them having more growth hormone than humans today.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:09 AM   #6
Darrell E. White
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Re: Arm workouts

Nolan and Jamie,

It is simply the state of ketosis and the associated metabolic acidosis that is harmful to the kidneys; there is no effect on the liver. Diets such as Paleo, or more like the Atkins diet which prescribes low or no carbs, must be accompanied by very aggressive hydration to protect renal function.

FWIW there is exactly zero research evidence that a diet such as Paleo or Atkins raises the risk of any type of cancer other than colon cancer. One caveat is that grilling your meat over real charcoal or real wood does increase the risk of stomach cancer.

Nice topic.

--bingo
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:19 AM   #7
Nolan Womack
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Re: Arm workouts

Thanks Darrell.

My brother was telling me just this last week about the charcoal grilling of meat, and it seems that the conclusion (given by his teacher who has a doctorate in Nutrition) was that it's fine to eat, but, the blackened part of the meat is denatured protein, which may get stuck in the intestines, is what you should watch out for when grilling meat, not necessarily all the meat over charcoal. However, I know a lot of charcoal has very toxic chemicals in it (specifically the quick-lighting ones), and I can see how it would make sense that the burning of the coals could (and most likely would) release some on/in the meat that's grilling.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:14 PM   #8
Don Wiss
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Re: Arm workouts

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Originally Posted by Darrell E. White View Post
FWIW there is exactly zero research evidence that a diet such as Paleo or Atkins raises the risk of any type of cancer other than colon cancer.
Actually my understanding is the studies showing the colon cancer increase don't control for fresh meat versus processed meat, and if you do, then one finds that it is only processed meat that is the problem.

Paleo followers tend to like bacon. Even so called unprocessed ones with be high in salt. It should be avoided. With my eggs I eat microwaved lamb kabobs from my Pakistani takeout. Their halal lamb is imported from NZ or Aus. and is grass-fed. I have them custom make me a batch. They only stock chicken kabobs, made with grain-fed chicken.

I can get grass-finished ground beef for $6/lb formed into patties. I could save money switching to cooking up a 1/4 lb patty of that instead.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:41 PM   #9
Steven Low
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Re: Arm workouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolan Womack View Post
Jamie, I'm sure you're aware of this but I'll explain myself more clearly (hopefully).

All the macronutrients have Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen, but only Protein has Nitrogen. When someone goes on, let's say the Atkin's Diet (mostly meat), their body goes into a Ketogenic state where it starts burning fat for Ketogen instead of Glycogen for energy (which burns excess fat off rather quickly), however, when one stays in said state, they become saturated with high levels of Nitrogen because their body is still only using the Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen for energy. High levels of Nitrogen in your body isn't a good thing, and it effects your kidneys/liver among other things, and can even lead towards terminal effects such as Cancer. Does that make sense? If not, I'll email my professor and see if he can explain it better. (Some terms might be wrong, it was a long time ago I was told about this, but the concept of the body not using the Nitrogen from Protein for energy, and only having so many other uses for it, that when all you eat is meat, you overload your body with Nitrogen, still is valid. Unless of course this has been proven obsolete).

My guess would be that since back then we've adapted to a diet where there are more plants, and that maybe back then they could handle, which may be the reason for them having more growth hormone than humans today.
This is quite possibly one of the worst warpings of science I have ever seen. Wholly incorrect conclusion.

We are meat eaters. We can survive on diets of JUST ANIMAL PROTEIN AND FAT (see the Inuit) and be extremely healthy.

We evolved as meat eaters. Neolithic agents of disease are caused by agriculture and industrial processing.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:42 PM   #10
Steven Low
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Re: Arm workouts

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Originally Posted by Don Wiss View Post
Actually my understanding is the studies showing the colon cancer increase don't control for fresh meat versus processed meat, and if you do, then one finds that it is only processed meat that is the problem.

Paleo followers tend to like bacon. Even so called unprocessed ones with be high in salt. It should be avoided. With my eggs I eat microwaved lamb kabobs from my Pakistani takeout. Their halal lamb is imported from NZ or Aus. and is grass-fed. I have them custom make me a batch. They only stock chicken kabobs, made with grain-fed chicken.

I can get grass-finished ground beef for $6/lb formed into patties. I could save money switching to cooking up a 1/4 lb patty of that instead.
There is nothing wrong with a diet high in salt either.
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