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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-08-2005, 09:05 PM   #21
Ross Greenberg
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John Hackleman?
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:34 PM   #22
Sonia Ng
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Hmmm...don't think too many combat athletes/trainers would dispute the validity and/or value of "strict" and/or "kipping" pull-ups as part of a GPP base...perhaps a better question might be:

Does training an athlete for "up/down" hip-explosiveness also carry-over for the "rotational explosiveness" in striking?(not just pure punching but the hip-pivots req'd for powerful roundhouses or the hip-thrust associated with knee-strikes).

Tough call,imo. I've known powerful strikers who've never done Oly lifts or "kipping pull-ups". I've also known powerful strikers who've done both.

But,yes-the heavy-bag(or substitute "banana tree" or "wooden dummy" or "younger sibling" :>) is the best SPP tool for powerful punching.

The athlete must also know how to generate power in different planes. Not everyone can innately "transfer" power from one plane to another w/o specific technique breakdowns,unless the athlete is somewhat "gifted".

jmo.thanks for explaining,Richard.
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Old 05-09-2005, 06:16 AM   #23
John Walsh
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For a fighter the highest percentage of power in a punch comes off their back leg. Coordinating the power link between legs trunk and arms is crucial to develop this power. Therefore I would say that kiping pull-ups do have a great carry over to punching power. Of course the best way to improve your punch is to punch. That’s a given but to suggest that pull-ups have no place in developing a boxer’s punching power is absurd. Fighters have been doing pull-ups as part of their conditioning for over 100 years
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Old 05-09-2005, 08:22 AM   #24
Stephen Troy
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IME, people who do a lot of punching tend to be able to climb rope and do pullups very well.

The idea, however, that kipping pullovers would carryover to punching, or anymore so than strict ones, doesn't make sense. First off, the hip involvement is completely different. Punching power comes from "rootedness," and hanging from your hands cancels that out.

I think if you had to take a list of exercises that would augment punching power, pullups of any type wouldn't be in the top ten. Maybe not the top 20.

They won't hurt though.
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Old 05-09-2005, 08:36 AM   #25
Richard Belloff
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"That’s a given but to suggest that pull-ups have no place in developing a boxer’s punching power is absurd. Fighters have been doing pull-ups as part of their conditioning for over 100 years"

I certainly never said nor implied this. The issue is whether kipping pullups directly improve punching power. I assert that there are simply many more exercises that are likely to assist in this endeavor than the kip.

I do pullups and think they are great. I simply don't assume that they are directly useful for punching power. Exercise is very specific and assuming that the kip is particularly useful for punchers is interesting but inaccurate in my view.

Now, if I were a climber or had to scale things, the kip would be right up there.

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Old 05-09-2005, 08:37 AM   #26
Richard Belloff
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I think Steven is dead on in his post.

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Old 05-09-2005, 08:43 AM   #27
David Werner
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Here's a radical suggestion; instead of endless internet debate and calls for "science" why don't one (or better, several) of you do the CrossFit thing here.

That is do an experiment. Find a way to measure punching power - say how far a heavy bag can be moved (record with pictures or video for analysis), then incorporate supplemental pull-up training into your normal routine. Kipping or not you shouldn't care, pull-ups of any sort will improve shoulder and back strength. After a suitable period, say 6-8 weeks, measure striking power again. Get as many people as you can coerce into your experiment.

We have to do this kind of thing. Sport scientists are still arguing about whether squats are bad for your knees and not likely to help us with any real functional training questions. Arguing opinions on message boards is not very productive either, rather like teaching a pig to read (doesn't work and annoys the pig).

The question of whether and how much pulling strength helps punching is excellent, central to CrossFit, and will turn out to have an answer that is not rooted in opinion.

Regards
Dave Werner
CrossFit North
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:21 AM   #28
Sonia Ng
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oh.
That makes too much sense! :>

Then we'll just launch into a debate about technique,too! Will time spent with supplemental pull-up training be of lesser/greater benefit vs. technique practice? (and on and on it goes...)

(although,I have added more pull-ups into my training)
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:40 AM   #29
Stephen Troy
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I haven't yet seen a decent device for measuring punching power; I called the US Olympic Committee a couple months back to see if they were using a dynanometer or anything to measure boxers' punchers. They don't.

The closest thing I found was some Brit scientists who put an oscilliscope (sp?) in a heavy bag and used that. Measuring distance alone is useless since you can just push-punch the bag.

Furthermore, you have to start working with experienced trainees, since damn near anything remotely productive will increase power in untrained punchers. These trainees also probably shouldn't already be doing a lot of pullups. You start to narrow your sample size very quickly.
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:46 AM   #30
Stephen Troy
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BTW, not to say that many other CrossFit-advocated exercises will likely improve punching power. O-lifts, back squats, swings, Inman walks, along with FCT/Russian twists, HSPUs, etc., all light-years ahead of the bodybuilder routines.
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