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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-13-2009, 09:48 AM   #11
Thomas Green
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
There are no cleans in that program, hence it is flawed.

.
Yeah, but it's easy to incorporate cleans in there. Most of those beginning strength training programs don't include cleans because at the beginner level, the focus should be on getting the form down, not relying on it as the primary strength builder. With stronglifts for example, it's easy to practice powercleans 3 or even 4 times a week(it's highly encouraged too) without risking injury or hampering one's recovery time. The intermediate/advanced programs all include cleans.

I think all those programs are good options and that the OP should just go with whatever is most appealing to him.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:53 AM   #12
Justin Gross
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

You're overthinking this.

You haven't even read the book and you're trying to second guess the programming. I'd suggest that you email Coach Rip and tell him that you don't think that his program doesn't 'specifically target the upper back' enough.

Make sure you post his response.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #13
Steven Low
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

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Originally Posted by Justin Gross View Post
You're overthinking this.

You haven't even read the book and you're trying to second guess the programming. I'd suggest that you email Coach Rip and tell him that you don't think that his program doesn't 'specifically target the upper back' enough.

Make sure you post his response.
I agree.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:07 PM   #14
Greg Pieris
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

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Originally Posted by Justin Wang View Post
so i've been reading the book (haven't gotten very far, only just finished reading about squats, the bench press, and the deadlift). and I was wondering if I could still incorporate pullups into the mix..
Perhaps you should finish reading the book, or at least read the section on programming. The "Onus Wunsler" program shown in the 2nd edition specifically incorporates chins. There's no reason you can't sub pullups.

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
1x5 Deadlift / 5x3 Power Cleans (Alternating)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
3x10 Back Extensions
Chin-Ups: 3 sets to failure
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:28 PM   #15
Justin Chebahtah
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
There are no cleans in that program, hence it is flawed.
...
Flawed? I'll write Rip to make sure this horrendous flaw is removed from PP4ST 2nd ed.

I will agree with the others as far as true novice programming. Just do the vanilla SS protocol for awhile. Don't shake things up as long as you're linearly progressing.

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Originally Posted by Jacob Cloud View Post
Personally, this "Advanced Novice" routine is one of my favorites on paper, and I am planning on giving it a go myself to see if I can eek out some more linear progression. The Wed workout should alternate DL and PC, IIRC. There's also discussion of alternating BW chins/pus and weighted chins/pus.

But if the guy is a true novice, he should stick with the plain jane SS routine, DL'ing 3 times every 2 weeks, until the frequency starts limiting his gains. Don't worry about chins/pullups for awhile, just focus on getting the main lifts up to snuff.
For me as well. It really allowed me to squeeze some more gains before I jumped over to CrossFit.

To the OP, you need to evaluate your goals and capabilities. I personally went with SS first because I was really "understrong" and was never taught correct form with the lifts. The typical squatting below parallel is bad etc, etc.

SS has the advantage of being able to really hammer out your form as you are practicing it every time you work out. That being said, if you really need to develop your work capacity now or just want to get started with CrossFit go for it. Just scale it down as necessary as that method has worked for tons of people as well. Was just sharing my experiences. Good luck with whatever route you choose

Last edited by Justin Chebahtah : 04-13-2009 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:10 AM   #16
Matthew Apostol
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

Justin,

My advice would be to adhere strictly to the Starting Strength model. I thought I had seven years of weightlifing "experience," but what I had been doing up until SS was inefficient and overcomplicated.

I personally started SS in December 2007. I stuck to the basic SS routine outlined at the end of the book, three times a week, concentrating on form and religiously documenting my progress, and the results were trully impressive (for me). By July 2008 (7 months later), I had made the following progress (all 5 reps X 3 set maximums except the deadlift which is 5 reps X 1 set maximum):

Deadlift: 160lb improvement
Squat: 90lb improvement
Bench: 60-70lb improvement
Power Clean: 30lb improvement
Shoulder Press: 30lb improvement

I was deployed in Iraq at the time, doing daily missions. I couldn't get proper caloric and nutritional intake, but I still imporved. Imagine if I had been eating and resting adequately, I would have done so much better!

When you reach a plateau (between 3 and 9 months according to Ripp), you can begin more specialized training. This is outlined in Practical Programming. You should definately buy this book, too.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:18 AM   #17
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

Justin,

Slide on over to Rips forum and see if you can get an idea of his opinion on the clean versus the row or people who do not clean in the SS program.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:34 AM   #18
Neal Anderson
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Re: starting strength + pull ups?

IIRC, Rip said in SS that pull-ups aren't really necessary if you are doing the beginner's program while lifting heavy and keeping intensity high. Your lats will get plenty of work when pulling heavy loads from the floor on deadlift days while keeping the bar against your shins to decrease torque on your lower back.

Basically, heavy deadlifts or rackpulls = strong lats

I feel it in my lats -- try it and see how it feels for you...
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