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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-07-2006, 01:59 PM   #1
Kevin Kaeating
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hi ive posted this question months ago and got no real answers or results , how do you mingle crossfit with bodybuilding ive tried cf alone and got quit small but am always too sore to work out weights properly with a schedule. working out sore is a big no no i know that much about bb. ive googled this and found lots of talk but no answers...
listen i love having good cardio and being in great shape but ive worked for 5 hard years to build my skinny 160 pound frame to 220 and i dont want to lose all that hard earned muscle just fat. so if you know a bodybuilder pass this on or if you are yourself, please help its been six months and noone knows lol!
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Old 04-07-2006, 02:36 PM   #2
John Messano
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Kevin,

I refer you to "What is Crossfit?" in the "Start Here!" tab on the main page. This document provides an excellent explanation to your questions.

In addition, you might consider inserting ME (Max Effort) workouts on the 2nd day of the 3 day CF cycle if you are seeking to increase your strength primarily.

Eg. Day1-CF MetCon. Day2-ME. Day3-CF MetCon. Day4-Rest, repeat cycle.

On your ME Day perform DLs, Cleans, Squats, Bench, Press, etc. Search message board "ME Black Box" for the details of this program.

Clearly, maintain size is largely a function of diet. The diet of many CF'ers is some form of the Zone Diet.

CF's program will increase your strength and speed, endurance, balance, agility, stamina, flexibility, power, coordination, and accuracy. that's it. it works.

Good Luck!
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Old 04-07-2006, 04:37 PM   #3
Garrett Smith
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Kevin,
If there's one thing CF does, it increases one's functionality. If you have found that your bodyweight decreases on CF, that may be a sign that the extra mass you have worked so hard to pack on, while nice to look at in a mirror, may not be as functional as one would like to think. I say this because I used to be 195# and around 15% BF on a BB program, got on CF and the Paleo/Zone diet, and now I'm 177# and 5% BF and a whole lot more athletic and functional.

Sure, I'm not as big, I'm a different type of athlete now.

If the bodybuilding program and diet you are on is working for you, I'd say keep it. I'd guess you're at this site because you desire something (functionality or GPP, maybe?) that BBing doesn't provide. If that is the case, you may have to decide between your goals--at least until your body adapts to CF and your muscle mass (and necessary dietary mods) catch you back up to where you want to be.

The BW numbers, while looking good to you now on the scale (I used to obsess about the "two bills" number, I understand) aren't as important as many think.
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:27 PM   #4
Kevin Kaeating
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thx guys yes i guess cf is primarily for functionability. yes i do want to be functional but my ideal weight for my heart size to be most proficient is 180, now that is alittle too small for me i think, i want to get the body fat down from about 13% to 6% thats why i was here on this site, i guess you cant have both which i realized years ago but have been fighting genetics, your heart size always stays the same.
i've looked for this "ME" on the boards cant find it can anyone tell me where to find that, and what exactly is metcon?
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:50 PM   #5
Veronica Carpenter
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Kevin, If size is your main goal I'd concentrate on your BB training and follow it up with the WOD. Also, make sure you're taking in enough calories to fuel your muscles. Doing the WOD's and lots of high intensity stuff will rev up your metabolism - so eat up!

I'm not quite sure I'd agree with the "don't workout if you're sore" theory, though. the more you push your muscles the more they will adapt and grow.
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Old 04-07-2006, 08:44 PM   #6
John Messano
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metcon - metabolic conditioning. any workout requiring a stopwatch. hard & fast. performed with moderate weight, bodyweight. the CF girls (fran, diane, grace, etc.) along with many couplets, triplets and chippers of Coach's design are the metcon. workouts. there's a ton of information on the site. i'd recommend reading a bit more. search also for "Eugene's notes".

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Old 04-08-2006, 02:39 AM   #7
John Velandra
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Kevin,
Coming from a nat bb background and SEEING results I understand where you're coming from. You will find that YES, you can add CrossFit into your regime, but the problem you will run into doing so is over-training or often times (for me) is under recovery.

Prior to (and even now) full tilt wods, I used a spilt training as such: m,t off wed, th, fr and off on weekends. Now I've added the wods and based on my body's energy, I'll take a day off. Granted I'm40 now so that plays a roles as well.

I disagree with most here in that I believe you can do well with both, just be careful. Another approach to intergrate it into your bb program:
1. Ensure you're not training too much,
2. Keep it less than 1 hour
3. Instead of taking breaks all the time, add in your CrossFit movements (air squats, l-sits, DB snatches, etc) as intensifiers.
4. Stick with priarily compound movements and stay in the 6 rep range.
5. EAT EXTREMELY WELL AND REST!!!

It's working for my clients and I'm happy with myself, now it's simply a matter of controlling any crap food desires or urges.

Feel free to email if want.
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Old 04-08-2006, 10:11 AM   #8
Kevin Kaeating
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thx man check your email
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Old 04-08-2006, 11:53 AM   #9
Richard Paul Ham-Williams
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I have never heard anyone say their training is restricted due to the size of their heart - new one on me! Heart doesnt grow? ventricular hypertrophy happens in response to exercise as any muscle does as far as I remember from school days.

No offense intended dude.

I currently weigh around 185-190lb I think (dont really weigh myself much now days) at 6`1, I look pretty fair sized, am pretty strong,fit and functional. I love pumping iron and I love crossfit so i basically do full body body building style workouts, once maybe twice a week and aim for the same crossfit workouts made up randomly myself using a number generator. I will often throw in clean and presses, front squats at the end of a workout even if pukie knocked on the door during WOD just because I love lifting.

You have clearly done really well upping your muscle mass that much, however - why did you do that? was it for looks/work/safety/intimidation. I know a lot of guys who got big to ward off trouble makers - never works - biggest guy always gets picked on first! go figure:-)

My goal now is not to become as big as possible, but to become as strong as a bull, as fast as a snake and as agile as a cat - if I achieve these I know I will still be a good size and look great but be a formidable presence no matter what I do.

Whats more important - looking great and big whilst being maybe slower and sloppier OR

Looking great, ripped and athletic whilst being wholly able bodied in anything you do?

I vote for the latter.

having said that I feel I will always lift weights in a body building style as I would truly miss it if I didnt do it - exercise isnt just about physical results, mental happiness is important too.

Sorry for the long message :-)
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:11 PM   #10
Kevin Kaeating
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ya well ive heard from a pro bodybuilder that no matter how much your body grows your heart stays the same size, maybe its a myth dont know. why did i get big...to look better i was quit skinny at one point and it has helped with grappling as well and my job in alot of ways BUT! what i truly desire is a mix of both very lean and muscle mass i just cant seem to acheive both and lets be honest im not following a bodybuilder contest diet it is way to strict for a guy who works 10 hours a day and cant count calories burned every hour...ive tried it, (john berardi) cant do it not me. SO im trying to maintain the zone diet which isnt too hard and everytime i experiment with new excercises not bodybuilding style splits i lose lots of mass..fat as well but muscle also..very frusterating but ive been reading and experimenting for 2 years now and i wont give up, i have a little gut which basically ruins all the big arms and shoulders you have, i want a good physique and to be in top cardio shape so i guess i will try to do the me black box method using bb in between?
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