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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-01-2008, 09:56 AM   #11
Patrick Donnelly
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

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Originally Posted by Eric Richards View Post
Basicvally, I'd like to fill out my 72", 180 lb frame with a little more bulk - say maybe 185 lb to 190 lb.
Do Starting Strength, and only Starting Strength* for 2-4 months. Drink a lot of milk as Rippetoe suggests and bulk up to 200-205. Once you're content with your strength and your gains start slowing down**, you can begin with the CrossFit MetCons and lean out to your desired weight, using ME lifts to help build strength. Until then, MetCon will only make it hard for you to gain any weight at all.

* Don't **** with the program.
** I remember once hearing that a >70# total on your CFT each month is a good gain. Once you start slowing to around 40# per month, then it's time to switch over.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:43 AM   #12
Annlee Hines
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

You should also read the CFJ article (it's a freebie) called "What is CrossFit?" - you can download it here (WFS) http://www.crossfit.com/journal/ - scroll down the right side to the category "CrossFit" and it's the first article listed (as I type this). The bottom line is that CrossFit will make you overall stronger. Your muscle mass will reflect your strength and your diet; your diet and your training modalities will lead to a given level of strength.

Define your goals clearly for yourself and the best modality to get there falls out of that.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:57 AM   #13
Tim Donahey
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

BTW, you'll find more details of the SS program here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/printt...t=998224&pp=50

(wfs)

I recommend you read all of it, but it is no substitute for the book.

If you have any questions, you can probably find them already answered, or you can ask them yourself here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=2281631 (wfs)

or here:

http://************.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36 (wfs)

Last edited by Tim Donahey : 01-01-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:14 AM   #14
Eric Richards
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

#8 I agree w/ the diet issue but I eat very clean. Just not sure how much to eat and how often. I often feel loose around the middle if I make it a point to down some extra protein and good carbs 2-3 days a week. I just haven't figured out the balance with the diet aspect. Also, how do I get a hold of the SS guide. Is it a book or strength workout routines or both?
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:48 PM   #15
Steven Low
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

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#8 I agree w/ the diet issue but I eat very clean. Just not sure how much to eat and how often. I often feel loose around the middle if I make it a point to down some extra protein and good carbs 2-3 days a week. I just haven't figured out the balance with the diet aspect.
Regulate your diet. Write down everything you eat for a week or two and calculate how many calories your maintenance metabolism is. The either use a diet on here like the Zone or something. That will help you get on what you need.

Quote:
Also, how do I get a hold of the SS guide. Is it a book or strength workout routines or both?
It's both -- it's a book on strength and it gives routines.

The book can be bought from wfs http://****************.com. Or you can refer to the above posted links.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:38 PM   #16
Jeremy Punzalan
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey View Post
The best way you're going to gain mass and strength as quickly as possible is to strictly adhere to the Starting Strength routine. Adding in Xfit days could, and probably will, detract from those gains. So be careful when adding them. To start I would simply do:

DAY 1: WO A
DAY 2: REST
DAY 3: WO B
DAY 4: REST
DAY 5: WO A
DAY 6: REST
DAY 7: REST

After 4 weeks, if you want to add in a Xfit day, add one WOD to day 6 and see how it affects your SS performace for the next two weeks. If you stall on the lifts or have trouble recovering, drop the Xfit day. If there are no recovery issues you can add a second Xfit day to Day 2 and see how it affects performance as before. I wouldn't add any more than that, but if you should insist, cautiously add a final Xfit day to Day 4.

The key to adding mass is in the kitchen. On week one of SS increase your daily diet by 400 calories and hold steady for three weeks. On week four increase your diet by 100 additional calories every week until the fat gains outweigh the muscle gains (pun intended). At that point you can drop 50-100 cals. and hold steady. You might be surprised by how much you can eat before that happens b/c most of that caloric surplus will be reserved for muscle synthesis.

You are going to gain fat, it's unavoidable, but once you've built a solid base of strength and muscle mass, switching to Xfit will take care of that pretty damn quickly and you'll still retain your muscle. And the more muscle strength you have going into Xfit the greater your potential energy expenditures will be and the faster you'll drop the fat. So enjoy the milk shakes and hamburgers while you can!

So what's a decent base of strength?

In my opinion a 5 rep max of:

Deadlift: 1.75x bodyweight
Squat: 1.5x bodyweight
Benchpress: bodyweight
Powerclean: bodyweight
Overhead Press: .75x bodyweight


Of course it won't fit so neatly, but that should give you some idea of the strength continuum needed, not only for Xfit, but for life in general.

Hope this advice gives you a better place to start.

PS. If you haven't already, read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe!
How long do i stay on SS before i can switch to cross fit?
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #17
Chris Mason
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

You don't have to do SS, or any other program before starting CrossFit. Your training should reflect your goals, so if your goals are to dramatically enhance your fitness across the spectrum then do CrossFit.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:34 PM   #18
Andrew G Parker
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

A lot of good advice given. I'm 49 and after almost 20 years of bodily neglect and abuse decided I couldn't stand it. As stated you need to determine your priorities. I need strength and my cardio sucks. I also am no doubt carrying an extra 30 lbs of unhealthy body fat. So basically I need everything. I chose to make strength a priority. As such I've been doing three WODs (M-W-F) with a focus on trying to do RX over speed. Obviously a lot of scaling still goes on. I also have been doing olympic and power lifting on T and Thur evenings. With a focus on building strength, I have chosen to ignore the unhealthy weight. I've cut most sugars out, but still eat well with a lot more protein. I've lost 14 pounds in 5 months, but have increased in definition and strength. My 3x5 squats have increased 150% since the end of April. The increases in strength has been very beneficial to the WODs and I believe my prioritization of building strength has been the right one for me. The cardio still needs a lot of improvement, but the intensity of my WODs is increasing as my strength has, so that will follow too. It probably would do me good to do a few tabatas at home as well. Now the strength training program has changed to a three a week and I will have to look out maybe changing out a WOD for the extra lifting workout.

Last couple of weeks I was feeling a bit run down, so took the weights days off last week and missed last Friday's WOD to spend some time in the mountains hunting. The recovery did me wonders and I feel like a new man this week again.

The point is, pick your priority/goals and design your program around it. In time you may change them.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #19
Dakota Base
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

Wow, way to dig up a 5 1/2yr old post....

Jeremy, based on your other recent questions, and for the benefit of others that may not have read your other threads recently....

To other readers: Jeremy is looking to get in shape and gain strength. He's a young kid (16), on the chubby side, and has very low lift numbers right now. His other threads have been looking at incorporating strength training as well as Crossfit. Ultimately, the responses have been to focus on building strength first before tackling a combined program, or tackling a weight/fat loss program.

To Jeremy: The idea of running your strength program first, THEN the fat burning program or GPP (general physical preparedness) program is thus:

1) You are very weak right now, so you need to spend some time focusing on building strength, which will help you handle better and go harder during your GPP/Crossfit training. Starting both right now will mean your strength growth is slow (too much crossfit/gpp), and you'll likely end up with injuries because you can't handle the weight and volume that Crossfit will throw at you, slowing you down even more.

2) Muscle tissue requires energy to feed. If you lean up first, you will be lacking in energy to supply your muscle growth, so your extra chub right now is an advantage while you are building muscle (kinda like the old body building philosophy of cycling between "bulk, build, and burn"). Having the fat now, and sustaining your growth with a solid calorie intake will help you build muscle, then once you get your muscle mass and strength up, you will have MORE muscle to more easily burn the fat off.

3) You're new to the game, so tackling too much all at once is dangerous, and counterproductive. Focusing on muscle/strength building lets you take a smaller bite up front, and lays a foundation that you can build on once you gain experience and your capacity improves.

There are a lot of different strength programs you can use: Westside, Wendler 5/3/1 (or any variation therein), Starting Strength, or the updated SS version found in Practical Programming often called the Wichita Falls or Texas Program, Greyskull Linear Progression, 5x5, etc etc etc. Pick one that suits you and go with it. By and large, all of these workouts in the 'new era' of strength programming is about high weight, relatively low volume, full-body movement/workout training, which presents a problem with combining with Crossfit Mainpage programming.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:43 PM   #20
Robert Fabsik
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Re: CF wods vs Starting Strength training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post
Wow, way to dig up a 5 1/2yr old post....

Jeremy, based on your other recent questions, and for the benefit of others that may not have read your other threads recently....

To other readers: Jeremy is looking to get in shape and gain strength. He's a young kid (16), on the chubby side, and has very low lift numbers right now. His other threads have been looking at incorporating strength training as well as Crossfit. Ultimately, the responses have been to focus on building strength first before tackling a combined program, or tackling a weight/fat loss program.

To Jeremy: The idea of running your strength program first, THEN the fat burning program or GPP (general physical preparedness) program is thus:

1) You are very weak right now, so you need to spend some time focusing on building strength, which will help you handle better and go harder during your GPP/Crossfit training. Starting both right now will mean your strength growth is slow (too much crossfit/gpp), and you'll likely end up with injuries because you can't handle the weight and volume that Crossfit will throw at you, slowing you down even more.

2) Muscle tissue requires energy to feed. If you lean up first, you will be lacking in energy to supply your muscle growth, so your extra chub right now is an advantage while you are building muscle (kinda like the old body building philosophy of cycling between "bulk, build, and burn"). Having the fat now, and sustaining your growth with a solid calorie intake will help you build muscle, then once you get your muscle mass and strength up, you will have MORE muscle to more easily burn the fat off.

3) You're new to the game, so tackling too much all at once is dangerous, and counterproductive. Focusing on muscle/strength building lets you take a smaller bite up front, and lays a foundation that you can build on once you gain experience and your capacity improves.

There are a lot of different strength programs you can use: Westside, Wendler 5/3/1 (or any variation therein), Starting Strength, or the updated SS version found in Practical Programming often called the Wichita Falls or Texas Program, Greyskull Linear Progression, 5x5, etc etc etc. Pick one that suits you and go with it. By and large, all of these workouts in the 'new era' of strength programming is about high weight, relatively low volume, full-body movement/workout training, which presents a problem with combining with Crossfit Mainpage programming.
This is great advice that applies not only to beginners but anyone who is stuck.

Just looking at the CF games, the events keep getting heavier and strength separates a lot of people from making regionals to the games.

Strength provides a great base and by focusing on that for a while you will make life much easier when you start doing metcons etc.

I wish main page CF had a format similar to CFFB with a basic strength program followed/balanced with other work.
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