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Old 12-11-2007, 08:26 AM   #81
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

The difference isn't so great that you can't make inferences. Generally, the stuff is going to be the same. The difference will mostly arise from situations where certain aspects trained may not be options (such as Becca's example) or the instances where escape is the only option (Multiple attackers/known weapons). 99% of the difference will be learning situational awareness and avoiding behaviors that put you into dangerous situations. In pure self defense/personal protection, fighting prowess isn't a large part of the curriculum. However, when it comes to the fighting part, the same things that MMA guys do is what you need to be doing.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:29 AM   #82
Gant Grimes
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Jay, I think we agree a lot more than we disagree on this. You're saying, and I agree, that MMA is going to give you a great shot at street self-defense. You like the techniques; I like the intensity and variety of training. Basically, the more hard physical situations you're put in, and the more you're punched in the face (to get over the shock of pain), the better off you'll be. I'd suggest that elite rugby players would have a good shot as well, given the brutal nature of their sport (and their propensity for drunken fisticuffs).

The point that I, and a couple others were trying to make, is that the "WTF!!!" factor is alarmingly large in real world encounters. The trick is to force the situation into one that seems a little more familiar (e.g. hot coffee to the eyes gives you a moment to disarm that pesky bottle) so you can apply your technique. The more you observe and experience the "WTF" factor, the better prepared you are to call your training into action. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:29 AM   #83
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

It sounds like you're talking about the being caught off guard, I think that's what you are talking about. I would question how you could replicate the element of surprise experienced when say, getting cold cocked.

Other than that, maybe we are, I really know the extent of your methods or philosophy.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:39 PM   #84
David Bott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
Jay, I think we agree a lot more than we disagree on this. You're saying, and I agree, that MMA is going to give you a great shot at street self-defense. You like the techniques; I like the intensity and variety of training. Basically, the more hard physical situations you're put in, and the more you're punched in the face (to get over the shock of pain), the better off you'll be. I'd suggest that elite rugby players would have a good shot as well, given the brutal nature of their sport (and their propensity for drunken fisticuffs).

Thank you Gant! Ok I think this is one of the rare posts that actually answered the question! MMA is popular nowadays due to the intensity, variety and hard physical nature of its training. Well that makes sense... none of this "because my school/style is better and all others are rubbish" idea. I Whole heartedly agree with what you said, my JJ school is sometimes, in my opinion, not physical enough... while we may develop a very good understanding of the techniques we learn, there is perhaps a lacking of "real world" intensity at times.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:17 PM   #85
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by David Bott View Post
I'm sorry but I cannot see how that is even remotely related to my previous post.
Your live blade stuff is straight from Human Weapon. Rubber knives are typically used.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:48 PM   #86
David Bott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by Jason Lopez-Ota View Post
Your live blade stuff is straight from Human Weapon. Rubber knives are typically used.
A: I said we DON'T train with live blades, but wooden ones.
B: I have heard stories of an Aikido school in the UK that DID train with live blades... and all the senior students were on first name basis with the nurses at the local hospital.
C: I haven't seen that Human Weapon series.
D: The media in general has done far more harm than good for martial arts, and there is no way I would draw my ideas from what I have seen on TV.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:06 PM   #87
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post
A: I said we DON'T train with live blades, but wooden ones.
B: I have heard stories of an Aikido school in the UK that DID train with live blades... and all the senior students were on first name basis with the nurses at the local hospital.
C: I haven't seen that Human Weapon series.
D: The media in general has done far more harm than good for martial arts, and there is no way I would draw my ideas from what I have seen on TV.
LOL at B. I gotcha.

The thing with the army grappling involving knives, don't you know the guy has a knife. Typical sport jiu-jitsu takes none of that into account.
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:17 AM   #88
Jay Hanewinkel
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

In army grappling training involving knives (tasers) you don't know if the guy has it or not. It's slipped in without you knowing, you only know the possibility is there. The only time you find out is when he decides to use it.

Most bjj schools that focus on sport do just that, focus on sport. Some do not. The Gracie academies focus on self defense first (this is what the army combatives program is based on) then sport aspects. BJJ blackbelt Matt Thorton has classes focused on self defense and has some good write ups for it. It's also not hard to make the adjustments by just using critical thinking and making minor adjustments to training as well as taking up striking wrestling training, which most MMA focused bjj schools offer. Bottom line: if you are looking for self, look for a school that focuses on that aspect.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:12 PM   #89
Francisco Galarce Morales
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I just saw this response in a quote but felt the need to respond... answers in bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca Borawski View Post
Nor should anyone who is studying Japanese Jujitsu think they're learning self-defense, quite frankly. Knowing how to hack up bamboo with a katana has no "realistic" application.

I don't know how it is in the us... but in holland we don't have much mcdojo's.. in our classes we don't hack up bamboo with a katana... we don't even use a kantana.. we do use knife's, pistols and sticks.. or better said we train to defend against them.. and still with the idea "only if you need to".. don't take the risk against a weapon if you can just give you're wallet..

Yes, you learn locks, throws, striking, etc - but the vast majority of it, in my opinion, will not really do much good in a self-defense situation.

You probably never learned them the right way.. locks, throws and strikes work good if you know how to use them...

Traditional martial arts tend to be too complicated in their movements to have much realistic application.

we keep everything simple... if it takes more than 1 or 2 steps to get any form of control... we don't use it

Are you going to train all those moves enough times to have instinctual response with them when someone attacks you? Likely not.

yes we do... when we train against different technique's have to keep my head with or I constantly use the same technique if somebody attacks... we also work on improvisation... the trainingspartner attacks (with intent) without me knowing what he does and I have to defend myself in any way possible... at first you fumble... but after ten years it goes quite good

And how many traditional martial arts schools train "live"?

we spar live... every training... also every training we train against two opponents... so you learn to keep somebody between the secondary opponent... we spar.. with some semi contact.. with others harder especially on the body

Most I've been train in slow stilted motions without any real sparring incorporated into their programs.

the fact that you haven't been to a good dojo doesn't mean the the style is bad...

from you're avatar I assume you do kickboxing or muay thai...
I personnaly can't take any kickboxer from the us seriously (I live in holland and also trained in mma and kickboxing)... I haven't seen a american kickboxer or mma fighter in international fights that can trow a decent lowkick or block decently... (compared to the dutch or the thai)...
so if you want to talk about bad dojo's start there...
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:32 PM   #90
Max Zerba
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

3 points.
1) The best self defense of your 800 meter time. Run like Hell!

2) The next best self defense....be home by mid-night....nothing good happens after mid night.

3) Going to the ground is horrible. You have no mobility, you are a sitting target. Get up and reference 1). Your attacked probably has friends that will kick you in the head.


Other than that, the questions is what are you training for? Self Defense, competition, Fun, camaraderie? Then go to the school and see what they do. Make sure the school you pick does what you want. Who cares what sign they hang in the window.
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