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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-05-2011, 07:32 AM   #21
Nolan Womack
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

The reason why the Bench Press gets a bad rep is because it doesn't make you stabilize your midline, you rely on the bench to stabilize yourself; this was mentioned when Rippetoe wrote the Crossfit Total article, and it was decided that the Standing Press was the better alternative, because any exercise done while standing, requires you to stabilize your midline.

Why you want to Bench Press is because it allows you to use way heavier weights then the Standing Press, hence why Rippetoe recommends performing the Bench and Press every other time (one is more "functional"* the other is better for overload).

Dips are phenomenal for assistance for both the Bench and Press, however, they transfer more to the Press then Bench per Bill Starr.

Push Press would be a fine alternative to the Bench, but I'd really only suggest doing that if you don't have a bench; maybe even alternate them every couple cycles or so if you want. I wouldn't have Cleans as a substitute, three Hip driven exercises in a week and only one Shoulder seems a little out of balance, Jim Wendler does suggest to do Cleans before Squats/Deads, something about exciting your CNS.

Hope this was helpful.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:21 PM   #22
Alex Europa
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

To answer your initial question: keep the bench press in the program. Generally speaking, when you decide to follow a program...follow it. As you become older and more experienced with working out, you will learn which exercises work best for you and which ones you can omit/substitute. Until that time, it's almost always best to follow a reputable program like 5/3/1 or SS to a "T."

But, I have to ask: have you considered Starting Strength? You're 16, exactly the kind of person Rip designed SS for. 5/3/1 is a great program but with someone your age, I would rather see you put in way more volume on the big lifts to 1) take advantage of your recoverability and put on more mass and 2) get more quality repetitions under load to help reenforce the proper movement patterns.

I've used both SS and 5/3/1 and definitely see better success with beginners with SS. This isn't to say that 5/3/1 doesn't work, only that I personnally feel that it is a little too convoluted for a beginner to wrap their head around. Also, setting a PR 3 days per week in the gym is a great way to keep someone motivated.

If I was in your shoes, I would do SS through 2 or 3 resets and then if you still want to continue strength training, switch to something like 5/3/1 or westside-esque training.

Either way, find what you enjoy doing and be happy that you have "found the light" so early and are doing the right stuff in the gym instead of using machines like most of us did in HS while "strength training" for our sports.

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Old 09-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #23
Andrew Bell
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

If you sub anything, I would do incline instead of bench.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:19 PM   #24
Bradley Groom
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

OK guys I've made a few decisions, I've been strength training for about a year and have already run a cycle of SS but I messed with the program and didn't eat nearly enough.

I'm now on day five of SS + gomad + a truckload of food a day (145lbs 5'11) but this time I'm making sure I do it right. When it's time for bench press I'm leaving the crossfit affiliate and sneaking onto a bench in the gym next door, that's worked so far so hopefully nobody notices The only issue I'm having is I play sports like 4-5 times a week so hopefully that doesn't mess with my recovery.

After I've milk out SS I'll probably start 5/3/1. Thanks a lot for your advice guys it's amazing to have access to knowledge and help like this.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #25
Dave Traeger
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

SS plus sports 4-5 times a week probably isn't a good idea. What sports do you play and how intense are those sessions?
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #26
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley Groom View Post
OK guys I've made a few decisions, I've been strength training for about a year and have already run a cycle of SS but I messed with the program and didn't eat nearly enough.

I'm now on day five of SS + gomad + a truckload of food a day (145lbs 5'11) but this time I'm making sure I do it right. When it's time for bench press I'm leaving the crossfit affiliate and sneaking onto a bench in the gym next door, that's worked so far so hopefully nobody notices The only issue I'm having is I play sports like 4-5 times a week so hopefully that doesn't mess with my recovery.

After I've milk out SS I'll probably start 5/3/1. Thanks a lot for your advice guys it's amazing to have access to knowledge and help like this.
What kind of sports, how long per day, and at what level of intensity? 4-5 days of sports can most definitely mess up your recovery from lifting. SS may not be the program for you while you're in season.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:39 PM   #27
Bradley Groom
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

I don't actually have them for the next 10 days because I'm on holidays but it varies in intensity, I play hockey and football (australian rules)
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #28
Bradley Groom
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

Bloody hell now I'm thinking it might be better to go back to 5/3/1..
Who knew lifting weights could be this complicated.
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:33 PM   #29
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

Look into a two day a week GSLP approach, and let your sports practices take the place of your conditioning workouts. As long as you're not pushing absurdly heavy weights you shouldn't have too much trouble recovering.

Or go back to 5/3/1 if it worked for you. What are some of your lift numbers?
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:44 PM   #30
Bradley Groom
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Re: 5/3/1 without bench

BS: 117.5kg (260lbs)
DL: 155kg (340lbs)
PR: 57.5kg (127.5lbs)
C+J: 85kg (188.5lbs)

I'm thinking I might just try SS for a couple of weeks and if I'm not recovering go to 5/3/1.

Last edited by Bradley Groom : 09-07-2011 at 07:07 PM.
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