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Old 03-05-2007, 06:38 PM   #18
Mark Rippetoe
Member Mark Rippetoe is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wichita Falls  Texas
Posts: 78
This seems to be the sticking point: "i'm not arguing a low bar squat will not deliver strength improvements in the pull, nor in the squat. but i think because of the different hip/back position in the clean vs low bar squat, the low bar squat is not as useful for developing strength for the portion of the clean in which the lifter is rising from the bottom." What I'm saying is that the hip/back position in the clean vs. the low-bar squat is the same. Look at the back angle of the clean AS IT LEAVES THE FLOOR and compare that with the back angle in the low-bar squat, and you will find that the low-bar squat is more similar to the pull than the high-bar squat. Look at the video, don't just assume, because you're not pulling from the position you think you are.

As has been said already, the FS is for the clean AFTER the rack, that's already being trained, and the FS is sufficient for this aspect of the clean. The high-bar squat is intermediate between the two. Since it is not specific to either position, the pull or the front squat out of the clean, why do it? If your argument is that high-bar is harder, I would say that harder is not necessarily better either; like your statement that a quarter squat uses more weight but that it doesn't transfer, the fact that the high-bar is harder is not really an argument for its use any more than would be an argument to squat on a swiss ball. The low-bar squat uses more posterior chain, allows the use of heavier weights at (amazingly enough) full range of motion, and more closely duplicates the back angle of the clean pull, and for that matter the snatch pull, than the high-bar squat does.

As far as programming it, I advocate using the low-bar in place of the high-bar. Where the program says "squat", put the bar just below the spine of the scapulas and squat. I'm saying don't do high-bar squats.

As for the OH squat fitting in here, Greg and I weren't talking about the OH squat.
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