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Aileen Reid 11-06-2007 05:32 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Found it - was a reply to you earlier. Will edit and elaborate more.

That's background. Anyway this guy works with generally 3 visits. I've only had one yet, next is Friday. This last time he stood me in front of a mirror, told me one shoulder was higher than the other (which I couldn't see) asked me to turn my head in both directions and showed me I had more movement one way than the other. Then he laid me down. Held my ankles and pulled on my legs and lifted them off the bed about 6-12 inches and showed me how my ankles didn't line up. He then put one of his hands on each of my hips and pushed them down on the bed. Told me to lift one leg, then the other - I could feel one was easier than the other.

Impt bit!
He then got me to bend my legs so my feet were still on the bed but knees bent about 45 degrees and feet about shoulder width apart. He then got my knees and told me to push them together while he resisted with his hands. There was a big crack which he said was my pubic symphysis realigning. He then did the reverse of that so I pushed his hands apart. Then retested my leg length and they were even.

Then he cracked my upper back and twisted it around first one way and then the other. That was basically it. My neck also now turns a lot better (I might add I had a neck problem last year as well!).

He's showed my how to do the first bit myself. You do it from a sitting position on a chair, feel flat on the floor. Use your forearm so you have one hand against one knee and your elbow against the other. Brace your wrist by grabbing it with your other hand and and push in with your knees against your arm. Reverse your arm/hands and repeat. And of course your partner can check your leg length any time.

Several weeks on.....

Ok - found the sitting bit hard to do, and he admitted its hard to make it work. Very easy with a partner or what I do these days is lie on the floor with my legs bent up as he says and throw eg a 4 kg DB between my knees and push against that. You just want that bit of distance. I crack like mad almost every time I do that. Then I grab an old coffee table we have, upend it and put my knees between the legs and again push against them - but out this time.
I'm sure you can improvise!

But the thing is for the first week or two or 4 it won't stay in. Turn over and its out again. So you have to be prepared to keep doing it.

The exercises I'll try to explain. Lay on your back, one leg out straight, other bent with knee is pointing straight up ie thigh at right angles to floor. With leg still bent point knee across body so is pointing to the other side. IN that position get someone to push down on your knee (towards the ground sort of) while you resist and push back up. 3 secs for this. Wait 7 secs, rotate knee/leg so knee is pointing to shoulder on same side. Again get the other person to push your knee down and towards your shoulder while you resist. 3secs and 7 secs. Then repeat with knee pointing to opposite shoulder. 3 secs and 7 secs. Do all of this with other side. Then repeat say 7 times. Do daily.

Other exercise I was given is bascially a hip flexor stretch -so just do any textbook stretches for the iliopsoas. The idea is to have those loose so they aren't pulling on your back.

Finally I am finding I need to keep up my core stuff - I have some fitball stuff I do which all helps plus some pilates stuff - especially the one where you lay on your back and bring your hips up - I do it one legged.

This last week has been quite bad for my back - but the difference has been we really slacked off on those exercises - Rob was working horrible shifts and they just didn't get done. And it obviously mattered!

None of this may work with you but I can't see any harm in trying it. It all seems pretty harmless - I mean if nothings out it won't go back in will it! And its not forceful stuff.

Once he'd pointed out to me the discrepancies in movement between left and right - particularly ease of movement, I know see that it was significant. Not merely a matter of being tight on one side. There was a reason for it!

Good luck.

Shane Upchurch 11-06-2007 07:14 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Cool, thanks Aileen. Some of that stuff my pt did when I was seeing him, but the exercises are knew so I will try that out. Ive been using a reverse hyper machine at CCT Joey's and it seems to help. I'll just keep trying and taking it easy. Thanks to everyone for the responses.

Rob Marrison 11-09-2007 12:09 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
[QUOTE=Shane Upchurch;212204]Rob, what kind of exercises or stretches does your guy have you do? Is a lumbar roll like a foam roll?[/QUOTE]

Hey Shane,

My current PT only has me do regular back bends. In addition she suggest occasional and careful forward bends. No manipulation, no exercises. She measures the range of motion that I have doing a back bend before and after short jogs and the like.

The PT did one strange thing that almost made me stop seeing her. She tried to tell me that squating wide damages my knees and that narrow squats were sufficiant because I don't need to train my glut/ham chain - quads are fine for squating. I almost told her she was an idiot, but managed to hold my piece and I ignore her exercise advice (I hope she knows what she's doing on the rehab end of things).

My prior PT did manipulations that often left me in more pain than before and had me do lots of core exercises. On the whole the current PT is better. Having said that I not anywhere near 100% percent and I don't feel I'm getting steady improvement. I'm just not in pain anymore when not being physically active like before. But if I run, lift, squat etc. I end up sore the next day or two every time - irritating.

The lumbar roll is just a round pillow used to maintain lordosis while seated.

Debra Bennett 11-09-2007 03:49 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
I'm going to throw something at you that might surprise you. I have 3 bulging disk and solid arthris (can't spell worth beans) in my back). Doctors said I should be in extra pain and in a wheelchair. I did have a leg that keep giving out on me and going numb. Guess what? It was the vehicle I was driving. The seat was pressing a nerve causing it to swell, and cause my problems. Go to a good Orthopedic and Neurologist, it will be worth the time and worry.

Brandon Oto 11-09-2007 04:09 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Someone recommended the book Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue to me. I've actually picked it up but haven't had a chance to look through it yet. Seems to be similar stuff; might be helpful.

Aileen Reid 11-09-2007 04:14 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Its not the only time I've heard that story! Perhaps not as bad and not the seat but both myself and a friend have had cause to think seriously about our clutch foot before now! It does always pay to think about the silly little things you do every day. I don't like my computer set up at home. Its in a corner and I can't get a foot rest in (becuase of the computer/powerboard etc) and tend to crook my feet back and put them on the chair pedestal (its an office type chair). I think this is bad because my knees are acutely bent back whenever I'm on it - no pressure of course but nevertheless. So I"m looking at changing the top on the desk to get it out of the corner.

Shane Upchurch 11-11-2007 08:29 AM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Interesting points...I did get a new vehicle around the same time that the problem popped up. Anyways for the past week or week and a half I have not been seeing any PT's. I've been doing back bends and other back and ham stretches throughout the day and I have started easing my way back into squats. Im completely restarting my squat process..I dont go past parallel yet, that seems to really upset my right hip which then upsets my back so I stop around parallel now and have not had any problems so far and my back feels a million times better. The next couple of weeks I am going try going a little lower each week and just feeling things out. Overall though Id say this is the best my back has felt in a LONG time. I definately think using the reverse hyper is helping a lot too. Thanks for the replies.

Rob Marrison 11-13-2007 10:21 AM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Speaking of car seats, I bought a $200 lumbar support and my car is now the most comfortable seat I have. Better then home and work. It's a metal frame folding seat with back and one can bend the back into whatever curve one wishes. As a bonus, it has a removable pad for those bad days. Well worth the money. If you're not sure if your car seat is a problem, something like this will rule it out for sure.

Jason Carriveau 11-17-2007 04:33 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Did your PT look at your feet,ankles,knees, hips? like someone stated earlier you might have a leg length discrepancy or you could possibly have a subluxed vertebrae, I would say chiropractor should be your next choice.

Tyler Easley 04-27-2008 05:51 PM

Re: PT says no more Squats
Interesting read. I had L4/5 disk surgery about 5 years ago. Long story, but an MRI was key, then surgery that same night. Any disk/nerve stuff is important to figure out ASAP.

But I found this thread because I'm starting CF and have been concerned re squats and DLs given my history. I think most PTs, on general principles, would tell someone like me "Just say No." But my back has felt great for a couple of years now, all my "intro to air squats" have felt fine, and under my CF trainer's guidance, I'm fully committed to working toward weighted lifting.

My sense right now is: work toward perfect form; all should be OK. Any other opinions, esp from folks with lumbar injury knowledge.

Much appreciated.

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