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-   -   A gallon of milk? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=23633)

George Mounce 11-27-2007 09:22 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto (Post 220299)
Legumes, and of course your non-Zone-favorable fruits and veggies, like carrots, peas, and kiwis.

Oh, and water and plastic containers.

And cell phones.

And children.

Why give up children? I'm trying to have one! Ok, not me but well..ah you get it. :p

I have carrots daily. I'm fully convinced that the GI of one measly carrot a day in my salad that has a ton of low GI veggies as well as protein and fat, is not going to kill me. Plus carrots taste wonderful, especially organics.

John Edmondson 11-27-2007 11:03 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Patrick, thanks for the link, duly noted. It's still pretty early in the experiment so I'll stay the course another couple of weeks and reassess at that point. It should be noted that I'm still eating very clean and zone precise, not "bulking up" in the traditional bodybuilding sense by eating everything in sight. Just trying to gain a bit of muscle and strength to hopefully improve on the heavier WODs such as "Elizabeth" and "Diane." I'm perfectly willing to trade 1-2% BF to achieve that end. Also, I have no intention of drinking a gallon of milk/day for the rest of my life. If and when I do reach what I believe to be an optimal weight and size for me, I fully intend to recalibrate my zone blocks based on my new LBM. Having said all that, the article has certainly given me food for thought, and I appreciate it.

Gerhard Lavin 11-28-2007 04:20 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto (Post 220299)

And children.

I couldn't eat a whole one.

Brandon Oto 11-28-2007 04:59 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Well, of course not. That would be like ten blocks.

Craig Brown 11-28-2007 08:09 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I can attest to the value of this 'gallon of milk' idea. I started working out at 30, at a soft, weak, 150 pounds. I screwed away six months in a Ballys. I found Dave Draper's site, I found Bob Whelans Site, I found Triggs Garage Gym, and I found Keys to Progress by John McCallum. So I went retro, did a serious stint of unpleasant heavy work, consumed a cubic ton of dairy products, and eventually (two years later) hit 215. Went paleo, dropped to a solid 190. Did I get fat? Yes. Did it matter? No. All the muscle I have ever put on I put on in those two years. Your mileage may vary. Now a smarter person would have probably alternated a month or two of the squats & milk with a month straight up crossfit (and a cleaner diet), and have even better results.

Craig

Anthony Militello 11-29-2007 09:43 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Geertsen (Post 214938)
Yup. I heard something like we can gain a maximum of 2lbs(muscle) per month if we do everything correctly.

you could squat once a week and deadlift heavy once a week with a high caloric intake and gain way more then 2lbs of LBM a month...If your training heavy and eating alot and only gaining 2lbs of muscle a month....:sniper:
your self....


:holysheep: ......always wanted to use this one....sorry.

Anthony Militello 11-29-2007 09:53 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
http://www.calorie-count.com/calorie...id=1082&size=3

thats only 1 qt of milk and it has 55g of sugar(lactose) not much in the way of lean mass gains there.

also a double scoop of whey has twice the protein...just eat an animal and lift heavy things....sleep then do it all over again.

Aaron Trent 11-29-2007 09:57 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/88686.html

The fat content in whole milk is significantly greater. Your example was 1% milkfat milk (aka, ew nasty watered down milk ew grose blech !!11eleventy!!111!!one!!!11)

Craig Brown 11-29-2007 10:18 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
In reference to the 'eat better food'....part of the help here is that you are ingesting a lot of calories, a lot of times a day. So if you are going to be using a protein powder (which will certainly work) you need to add fats AND calories if you are trying to build fast. It's easier (read: more efficient) to err on the side of too much nutrition, and lose the fat you gain, than to try some perfect balance of trying to bulk while staying lean. Mind you this goes against a lot of the intentions of crossfit for most people. In a perfect world we'd be raised with beyond adequate nutrition coupled with serious physical training froma young age. Failing that you do what you can to make up for lost time. I would expect the folks working SS and Crossfit in rotations (either simultaneously or serialy) should have an effective thing going. I think the basic troubleshoot for most people trying to make muscle gains runs like:

1. train smarter and harder
2. train harder and with progression
3. eat better and more
4. rest better and more

Craig

Bryan Edge 11-29-2007 12:09 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer Provow (Post 214854)
i would meet pukie in a whole new way if i tried this

For the lactose intolerant -- would it work with Soy Milk?

Although I suspect the ensuing flatulence would be deadly -- for friends and family if not the drinker.

Alex Bury 11-29-2007 12:13 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Sounds like a sure fire way to gain a little muscle and a ton of fat in very little time.

Daniel Hoang 12-07-2007 10:22 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
someone who has actually done this, give some insight on it please. i'm trying this and its pretty damn near impossible. should i be working my way up to a gallon a day at least? i feel like a damn bloated elephant all day long. i understand it isnt supposed to be easy.. but maybe some tips on how to go about it? :weight_l:

Derek Maffett 12-08-2007 01:13 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I couldn't do that. Of course, I probably wouldn't need to - half a gallon might even work for me. Good thing I don't want to gain weight right now.

Derek Heinonen 12-08-2007 11:29 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Hoang (Post 225471)
someone who has actually done this, give some insight on it please. i'm trying this and its pretty damn near impossible. should i be working my way up to a gallon a day at least? i feel like a damn bloated elephant all day long. i understand it isnt supposed to be easy.. but maybe some tips on how to go about it? :weight_l:

I've only been doing it for a limited amount of time (nearly 5 weeks) and find every day a little struggle!

I'd say I drink about 85-90% of a gallon each day. I always shoot for a full gallon.

Some ideas: spread it out. Have a quart at breakfast. Don't try to do it all at once, but just work it a glass here, a glass there, throughout the day. I like to have most of my milk AFTER meals, because it's easier to chug a glass than force yourself to eat after you've dranked a bunch of milk.

Peanut butter is good to encourage milk consumption.

If you get bored with plain milk, you can always add chocolate.

Milkshakes are another viable idea.

Tim Donahey 12-08-2007 12:34 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
There's another discussion on this over at Strength Mill w/Mark Rippetoe (WFS): http://************.net/forum/showthread.php?t=431

Here's an excerpt:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
The deal with saturated fat is that, above all, it is not poison. No study in existence has ever shown that saturated fat causes CVD, and its presence in a food that is useful should not prevent you from using in your diet. No one is suggesting that you get half of your calories from the "butter" they use on movie popcorn, but whole milk for a growing young lifter is much more more valuable than the fat it contains is dangerous. Milk is quite literally better than steroids for a novice lifter to grow on, and no supplement produces the same effect.

(Emphasis mine)

Michael Hays 12-08-2007 03:25 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
so would this be advantageous for someone who wouldn't mind gaining weight, but only if proportional to gains in strength? I'm currently doing the 3/1 WOD and GTG with pull-ups throughout the day (hoping to integrate SS or a ME somehow, still doing my research on that, it's all alien to me).

I guess my question is, I am still lacking in overall upper body strength, and milk seems to be an effective option for younger beginners (M/21/165). But I am really focusing on increasing my dh pull-ups and gaining a ton of ineffective weight would not be ideal.

would a gallon of milk/day work for me?

Derek Weaver 12-08-2007 05:57 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Edge (Post 221351)
For the lactose intolerant -- would it work with Soy Milk?

Although I suspect the ensuing flatulence would be deadly -- for friends and family if not the drinker.

No, soy milk wouldn't be a good alternative.

Since lactose intolerance is characterized by GI distress and discomfort, it wouldn't make sense to sub in a load of soy milk that could cause the same issues.

Plus, I seem to remember reading around here that soy can cause an elevation of estrogen in men.

Tom Rawls 12-08-2007 06:01 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
T-nation summary of journal article article. Make of it what you will:

"Supplementing with protein resulted in significant lean mass gains. Even twelve weeks of soy protein supplementation did not inhibit lean mass gains or decrease serum Testosterone levels in the resistance trained."

Travis Hall 12-08-2007 07:50 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Good ol'T-Nation.... Do a search for soy in their engine and you'll find a few other articles listing it as the Devil's sister. Well, they always have consistent informationů Or at least, their research on Biotest is never contrary ;)


I admit to reading Atomic Dog religiously and laughing my *** off....

Jacob Vohs 02-04-2008 08:13 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
So does Rippetoe recommend 1 gallon of whole milk a day on top of the regular 2000-3000 calorie diet or is the 1 gallon of whole milk included in that? I'm 155 lbs., 5'7", and around 15% bodyfat. I have weight lifted for 2 years now but am just starting Starting Strength and really getting my form down on all my lifts now. Does this gallon of whole milk a day sound like it would work for me? I'm not lactose intolerant and I like milk. However, I don't want to get fat doing this either.

Jonathan Greene 02-04-2008 08:33 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
It will work for your if your intention is to grow and assist yourself in getting stronger.

The recommendation is to drink the gallon of milk in addition to your regular food consumption, which should be comprised of wholesome food such as meats, eggs, vegetables, fruit, and nuts.

You will not "get fat" if you are sticking to the program and eating as described above.

Jacob Vohs 02-04-2008 08:48 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Greene (Post 252692)
It will work for your if your intention is to grow and assist yourself in getting stronger.

The recommendation is to drink the gallon of milk in addition to your regular food consumption, which should be comprised of wholesome food such as meats, eggs, vegetables, fruit, and nuts.

You will not "get fat" if you are sticking to the program and eating as described above.

I plan on following a 17 block Zone diet plan with 1 gallon of whole milk a day. I will be having meats, eggs, fruit, and nuts; but no vegetables for the most part. I really don't like any vegetables at all.

Derek Heinonen 02-04-2008 09:37 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Vohs (Post 252679)
So does Rippetoe recommend 1 gallon of whole milk a day on top of the regular 2000-3000 calorie diet or is the 1 gallon of whole milk included in that? I'm 155 lbs., 5'7", and around 15% bodyfat. I have weight lifted for 2 years now but am just starting Starting Strength and really getting my form down on all my lifts now. Does this gallon of whole milk a day sound like it would work for me? I'm not lactose intolerant and I like milk. However, I don't want to get fat doing this either.

On top of your regular diet.

A gallon of milk has 2400 calories alone.

So, yes. Eat your regular diet. Supplement with a gallon of the good stuff.

How old are you?

Craig Van De Walker 02-05-2008 07:31 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
YES I did it

Yes it works!

Send me an email if you have specific questions

Mark Konecny 02-05-2008 08:46 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Hey,

Milk is the key to muscle growth in my opinion. Think about this; one cup (250 ml) of skim milk has approx 9 grams of protien, if you drink even a 4 cups (1 L) a day which isn't that much if you drink a regular sized glass with three meals a day you would be getting and extra 36 grams of protein that you would have to get else where. The protein that comes from milk (whey) is the most complete form of protein that you can consume, and some of the most cost efficent when compaired to meats, nuts, etc.
I find it odd that people will mix protein supplements with water, if you put it in skim milk it will dissolve just as easily and add even more protein to the mixture.

Brad Davis 02-05-2008 08:51 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I skimmed the thread and didn't see mention of one important item. I'll risk stating the obvious.

The gallon of milk plan is only intended for very skinny and preferably young people who need to gain weight. Over at his forum, Rippetoe answered a question about this program recently from a fellow who was a little older (35?) and Rippetoe advised him that he'd just get fat if he followed the gallon of milk program. I can easily see someone like that drinking a gallon of milk/day for a month and gaining 15 lb of fat and 1 lb of muscle.

Adam Head 02-05-2008 09:11 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Hmmm. I can't believe this has gone on as long as it has. (Or that I read as much as I did:bonk:)

Anyway, for all of you questioning the weight gain as to whether or not it's purely fat, purely muscle, a little both. . . If you start out at 15% body fat, put on 25# of weight and your bf% doesn't change, thats great. But that doesn't mean you added 25# of muscle. You had to have added fat also. If you didn't, your BF% would be lower than when you started. So, to get back to the opening question, of course Brendan put on some body fat also. That 28 pounds isn't purely muscle. But if his bf% stayed pretty close to what is was before he started, he did an amazing job of gaining mass in 6 weeks. (Although, who wouldn't lifting with Coach Rip everyday for 6 weeks!)

Jonathan Greene 02-05-2008 01:00 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Davis (Post 252883)
I skimmed the thread and didn't see mention of one important item. I'll risk stating the obvious.

The gallon of milk plan is only intended for very skinny and preferably young people who need to gain weight. Over at his forum, Rippetoe answered a question about this program recently from a fellow who was a little older (35?) and Rippetoe advised him that he'd just get fat if he followed the gallon of milk program. I can easily see someone like that drinking a gallon of milk/day for a month and gaining 15 lb of fat and 1 lb of muscle.

That is not exactly what was said.

To quote Rip -

"Older adults using milk for weight gain may find that they get a little chubby on this program. This is because as growth hormone and testosterone levels diminish with age, the ability to easily build muscle on a heavy training program diminishes as well. This means that less of the nutritional input can be converted to muscle in response to stress, and consequently more fat will be deposited.

This is rotten, ****ty fact. I personally am offended every time I contemplate this. But the fact remains that older lifters cannot grow as efficiently in response to training as younger lifters can because of their inability to recover, and the efficient conversion of nutrition to muscle is a major factor in recovery."

Getting a "little chubby" and gaining 15lbs of fat with only 1lb of muscle are two very different things in my book.

The way I see it is if you are in your 30's or beyond and want to try the SS program you do have an option. Give the routine a try and keep a sharp eye on your body composition. If your bodyfat % starts to climb higher and faster than you can live with, back off on the milk until you are happy. You will progress slower but that is a compromise to be balanced by you.

Ryan Blair 02-05-2008 01:08 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I started Rip's program 2 weeks ago. I'm drinking a gallon of whole Horizon organic milk(from walmart) a day. I'm 33 15% BF, so I asked Rip on the forum if I should drink the milk or not. He said to stick with the proven method.
I'm also lactose intolerant, I'm taking a product called digestive advantage, I also got at Walmart, it's 1 pill a day which is easy and I haven't exploded yet - if you know what I mean.

I'm eating paleo zone, but I did drop some of the other fat intake and cut my other carbs in half. I usually skip my last 2 block snack as well.

I seem a bit more plump using the pinch test. I've put on 6 and 1/2 lbs in 15 days. I have already broken my 5 rep max on squat and deadlift, and am about to pass it on all other lifts. 2 WEEKS ago my 5 R M on squat was 225, tomorrow I'll do 275 3 sets of 5 and shouldn't have a problem based on Monday's sets w 265. I'll pull 1 set of 5 with 305 on DL on Fri, my previous best was 270 for 5. :kicking0:

Don't over analyze - just give it 6 weeks.

Derek Weaver 02-05-2008 01:21 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Vohs (Post 252707)
I plan on following a 17 block Zone diet plan with 1 gallon of whole milk a day. I will be having meats, eggs, fruit, and nuts; but no vegetables for the most part. I really don't like any vegetables at all.

I hate to sound like your mother, but EAT YOUR VEGETABLES. Learn how to eat them. Douse them with olive oil, some vinegar and maybe ever a little grated parmesan. Whatever it takes to get them down.

Especially when following a lifting and eating program like this getting enough fiber and phytonutrients is crucial.

Rant over. Sorry for the lecture.

Brad Davis 02-05-2008 02:47 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Greene (Post 252998)
That is not exactly what was said.

To quote Rip - ...
Getting a "little chubby" and gaining 15lbs of fat with only 1lb of muscle are two very different things in my book.

The way I see it is if you are in your 30's or beyond and want to try the SS program you do have an option. Give the routine a try and keep a sharp eye on your body composition. If your bodyfat % starts to climb higher and faster than you can live with, back off on the milk until you are happy. You will progress slower but that is a compromise to be balanced by you.

You are correct--> My bad. I was just going by memory rather than going over there and digging up the thread.

However, I really believe that I would put on mostly fat if I tried that plan. That bias clouded my memory of the thread, I suppose.

Chris Stowe 02-05-2008 02:49 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
This is probably a little in the old news dept, but I talked to Brendan the other day on the phone, and he did gain that weight, in a little over a month, from a gallon of whole milk per day. His DL went from 405 to 465 in a month. His weight went from around 175 to around 200 or so from the milk. Dont know if I could get a gallon of milk a day down, but I know for a fact it worked for him. Thought I would throw that little bit of info out there.

Chris Jordan 02-05-2008 02:55 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Roddy (Post 215171)
Raw milk is illegal here in MI, unfortunately. I'd love to try it though. Someday, when I move out of this crap state, haha.

I don't think raw milk is illegal, just selling it. Goats need less food/space than dogs...though wal-mart doesn't sell hay. If you have a yard you might give it a try. In some states, farmers get around the law by selling customers shares in a cow/goat. Then they have access to their own animal's product. You might see if something like that is available.

...late to the party as always. Sorry.

Jacob Vohs 02-05-2008 03:34 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Heinonen (Post 252735)
On top of your regular diet.

A gallon of milk has 2400 calories alone.

So, yes. Eat your regular diet. Supplement with a gallon of the good stuff.

How old are you?

I'm 17, 18 in a few months.

Jacob Vohs 02-05-2008 06:01 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Does drinking a gallon of whole milk a day reap any negative effects on the body?

Nick Cummings 02-05-2008 06:50 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
It is likely not optimal for health but then again thousands of people daily make the worst food choices possible and live to 75. I expect the human body can handle a gallon of milk a day for a while, perhaps 6-24 months I don't really know, before any "real damage" is done.

Jonathan Greene 02-05-2008 08:57 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Cummings (Post 253182)
It is likely not optimal for health but then again thousands of people daily make the worst food choices possible and live to 75. I expect the human body can handle a gallon of milk a day for a while, perhaps 6-24 months I don't really know, before any "real damage" is done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Vohs (Post 253158)
Does drinking a gallon of whole milk a day reap any negative effects on the body?

If you desire to gain lean mass at a rapid rate, are willing to follow the rest of the program, and don't have an issue digesting milk - you should be fine.

If there are any studies that show any short term or long term issues with a healthy, lactose tolerant person consuming a gallon of milk in addition to a healthy diet I am not aware of them and would love to see them if they exist.

Nick, are you aware of any such studies or do you personally know anyone who has caused damage to themselves consuming milk in this manner?

I really don't mean to single anyone out but the milk debate seems cause a lot of assuming along the lines of, "It is a gallon of milk per day. That is extreme. Of course it will hurt you / cause you to become obese / ruin your life".

I can understand the trepidation but the SS style routine, milk consumption included, is a tried and true method that is extremely effective for young, skinny athletes looking to gain strength and size.

John Edmondson 02-05-2008 09:20 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
It worked for me. I'm 33 and went from 172 to 193 in a little under a month with about a 3% increase in bodyfat. No Starting Strength either, just the regular WODs. Unfortunately, I just didn't feel as quick at that weight and my benchmark times suffered, so I've dropped down to about 185 and feel much better. Now I just eat my regular maintainence diet of 17 blocks, and the BF% is back down to where it was when I started. For what it's worth...

Zach Forrest 02-05-2008 11:23 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Lots of confusion, lots of opinions, lots of facts, lots of testimonies, and lots of...more confusion. :confused:

Well, I haven't been drinking a gallon a day. I don't do a straight SS program. I am not an expert.

Drinking a gallon of whole milk a day on top of your regular diet makes perfect sense to me if you are using a strength building program, though. Why? Because milk is the a perfect balance of macro nutrients for muscle building. Think about it:

-The protein you get from milk is WHEY(fast digesting, easily utilized) and CASEIN (slow digesting, is absorbed throughout the day)
-The fat serves its purpose as a micro-nutrient delivery system (one of the main functions of lipids is to deliver vitamins/minerals to body systems) and fat also regulates GROWING hormones (i.e. testosterone, IGF-1). Males generally need 30% of their caloric intake to be from fat to have optimal hormone levels, right?
-The carbs from milk are mostly disachirides(sp?). Which are "complex, simple sugars"...if that makes sense. It's a simple carb that is more complex than straight glucose. Perfect for pre/post workout deliver of protein.

Only thing missing, really, are the micro-nutrients...training...and recovery.

Another point of discussion seems to be weight gain...well, I'm here to tell you all it is not possible to gain more than 2-4lbs. of MUSCLE in a month. The human body just can't produce it. What IS possible is to gain approx. 2-6lbs. of lean body mass (LBM). What's the difference? Well...

"Muscle" weight is the weight of...yeah, the muscle. But a muscle holds water. It also holds glycogen. So LBM = muscle + water + glycogen. (Plus whatever small gains in bone/join density you gained)

Like I said, I'm no expert. This is just info I've read/learned through class and certs and what not. Don't know what (if any) negative side effects are incurred from 1 gal. a day though...I'm so interested as I might try it. Dunno...on the fence about it. :shrug:

P.S. Brandon G. might have gained 28lbs in...what was it, a month or two? Possible, but like I said...I'm almost *positive* only 4lbs. of that was PURE muscle/month.

Nick Cummings 02-06-2008 08:21 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Johnathan, no I do not know of any studies. It is my opinion that drinking a gallon of milk a day is a great strategy for someone who wants to gain weight. The following is speculation on my part. That being said I doubt it is the best option for longterm health when compared with something like Paleo/Zone. So perhaps eating Meats nuts vegetables etc is 80% of the way to a "perfect" diet. Supposing that Paleo/Zone is 95% of the "perfect: diet. I would, based on absolutely nothing but my own opinions put drinking a gallon of milk in addition to Paleo/Zone at say 72%. As I was kind enough to respond directly to your question would you consider ranking them for me and let me know if your hypothetical ranking comes out much different?


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