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Michael Latch 12-08-2008 02:13 PM

Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?
I thought I remembered a thread from a while back where it was explained that, to expect strict Push-Presses in FGB is like expecting the athlete to also "stand tall" at the top of a Box Jump...whereas it's faster to "rebound" off both the top and bottom of the jump (opening the hip angle while in the air).

Isn't achieving an open shoulder angle at the end of the movement more important than *simultaneously* having both an open shoulder angle and an open hip angle?

Again, I'm talking about FAST ones with a LIGHT bar, as in FGB...

OBVIOUSLY, when you're practicing the individual movements you practice them in their strictest form.

Also, when Greg Glassman speaks, I believe he says something along the lines of "once you learn to Push Press, you'll never want to Press again...once you learn to Jerk, you'll never want to Press OR Push Press again."

Bottom line...are they or aren't they considered legit, and...why or why not?


Mike in L.A.

Sean Dunston 12-08-2008 04:07 PM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?

When a WOD calls for a specific movement, that is the movement you use, otherwise, you are not doing it as prescribed.

Push Press is prescribed in FGB, so if you are doing it with Push Jerks, that is not doing it as prescribed.

it is easier to move greater weight with a jerk than a press, so your "numbers" would not be legit if you are comparing them to other folks who are doing it with a push press, or even if you are comparing it to prior numbers of your own when you were doing it with a push press.

Andrew Gray 12-08-2008 04:30 PM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?
Fight Gone Bad says to do push-press, not push-jerk, so in that sense if you want to do FGB correct then you should not be allowed since a push-jerk is easier than a push-press. If you want to compare against others you need to do the same workout.

However, the point of a workout is to get you in better shape and if you feel you get greater benefits by doing push-jerks, I say go for it. It is doing the same amount of work (a little more actually) so I can certainly see the argument for using it. I probably wouldn't use push-jerks anyway though because they tend to be a little slower.

Christian Gotcher 12-08-2008 06:52 PM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's asking whether or not his PJ FGB scores should count the same as someone doing the PP. I think the question is- should the PJ be substituted for the PP universally in FGB (or, say, filthy fifties), since these are 'power workouts' and the PJ is a more powerful movement. I would say no just because the weight is so light. At 45# and even 65#, a push press can be a hair faster than (or at least the same speed as) the PJ. If you don't stop for the entire minute, like some firebreathers can do, you get a couple of benefits: 1) the PP is harder, so the perceived effort is much greater, requiring more persistence and dedication to keep up the high cycle rate. 2) The power will remain the same as with the PJ, 3) You practice a less common movement with some functional application (there seems to be a Kipping PU, PJ emphasis in Crossfit because of their higher power output).

There's my two cents.

Michael Latch 12-08-2008 10:32 PM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?
Nice...keep the replies coming, ya'll!


Chris Kemp 12-09-2008 04:17 AM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?

Originally Posted by Michael Latch (Post 465135)
Isn't achieving an open shoulder angle at the end of the movement more important than *simultaneously* having both an open shoulder angle and an open hip angle?

Both a push press and a push jerk end with a simultaneously open hip and shoulder!! At completion of a push press or push jerk it will be impossible to tell what movement was performed

Mike, I know you know that but just wanted to make it clear for any newer folks coming into the thread.

My thoughts on use of PP vs PJ in FGB and the 50's is that with such light load there is no doubt that PP is the faster and therefore more powerful option. The loads are super light and if you can't jump it (or an appropriately scaled load) to full extension then there are issues with your hip function which should be remedied by further technique work.

Also, with the PJ there is a big issue with completion of the repetition. You will see time and again athletes dipping, jumping under the bar to lock-out and then instantly dropping the bar to rack. Obviously a rigorous scorer will ensure that these short reps are not awarded but it is easier to remove temptation and go with the faster easier drill.

I haven't heard the quote regarding box jumps and push presses before but the interpretation that comes to my mind is slightly different than yours.

Strict PP are driven from the hip - but with the loads seen in FGB you are much more likely to see an elastic bounce of the chest/ shoulders with a bounce off the toes. If you dig up the old vid of Brendan, Greg A, Dave Leys et al doing FGB watch Greg hammering the PP - very little if any hip but a nice bounce at shoulder and toe.

No way in my head that I can link the box-jump description given and the push jerk.

From a perspective of scores being legit or not, you set the rules in your box depending on what you want to see. The Rx however specifies PP. I have realised that I defaulted to PJ unconsciously early in my CF exposure and have worked to overcome this flaw. A re-run at your Jacket o' Pain not so long ago gave me a great opportunity to practice. Thanks mate!

Cheers, kempie

Michael Latch 12-09-2008 03:09 PM

Re: Push Jerks...Allowed for FIGHT GONE BAD?
I follow you guys, of course...

Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to a strict Push Jerk, or even maybe what you'd call a complete Push Jerk...more of a fast, rhythmic--almost like a Jumping Jack but w/o the split of the feet--Push Jerk.

Not for O-Lifting workouts...

But more the "chest to overhead by any method" mentality.

I'm somewhat playing Devil's advocate, just to see what others think, and to see if anyone can direct me to the past Message Board conversation about it....

Keep the opinions coming, please!

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