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-   -   A Bears Tale (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=28937)

Fergus Lally 12-18-2008 01:11 PM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
[QUOTE=

[URL="http://www.navyseals.com"]
navyseals.com[/URL] -- never tried that, when I've looked it always looks like too much volume.[/QUOTE]

ya there's a bit of volume but it may come in handy when I'm looking for an extra WOD here or there...

Scott Jenkins 12-19-2008 03:37 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
[B]Kirez[/B] - Thanks for all the information, the thought that even though my energy levels are very high I could get even better energy levels is exciting. The sugars are gone anyway, I always check my juices to make sure they are 100% juice and not made from concentrated although I am partial to a Diet Coke (one can a day) and maybe three small yoghurts a week.

The main thing for me would be to replace my pasta. Today for example I have six hard boiled eggs , one can of sardines, banana, orange, rhubarb yoghurt and some raw vegetables (I like them raw). The eggs are in a big sized tub mixed with pasta. Is there a paleo replacement for this which would do the job of not leaving me hungry all day? The only thing I can think of is massive amounts of broccoli which i like very much, or maybe I could have more eggs and a couple more cans of sardines. This listed food does not include my breakfast which is generally oats mixed with boiled water and dried prunes or my dinner when getting home (meat, potato, veg), which I will change to eggs from now on. Damn Kirez what will I put my scrambled eggs on with no bread!!!! Oh yes another thing I really like is cheese, usually eat this in the night when I am half asleep.

Any thoughts from Patrick also would be appreciated. The paleo diet would probably benefit my wife much more than me as she does have problems with her energy levels sometimes.

[B]Fergus[/B] - Yes the volume is high on the navy seals WOD but not as high as your volume :D

[B]Kirez[/B] - Filthy Fifty on the main site and it has burpees, maybe if I do a sprawl version where I kick my legs back and land in a press up the back irritation will not happen.

[B]18 December 2008[/B]

3 rounds for time:
Box Jumps 50 reps
Bench Close Grip 125lbs 21 reps
Pull ups 30 reps - [B]13.31[/B]

A la Fergus - Shoulder Press 40k/88lb 30 times - 1.18 consecutive (small breaks in rack position.

30 minutes Oly practice. Still not quite getting the second pull and arm shrug timing that great but the bar must be a lot closer to me now as I smashed into the bottom of my chest.

Christin Street 12-19-2008 04:30 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
Good info from Kirez. I'm also one of those who consumes starchy carbs and it seems to have little effect on me. In fact when I go low carb I feel like crap. I have eliminated the diet sodas which made me feel soooo much better. No more artificial sweetners. I'm going to the CF Nutrition Cert next month so we'll see.

Scott Jenkins 12-19-2008 05:17 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
[QUOTE=Christin Street;474563]Good info from Kirez. I'm also one of those who consumes starchy carbs and it seems to have little effect on me. In fact when I go low carb I feel like crap. I have eliminated the diet sodas which made me feel soooo much better. No more artificial sweetners. I'm going to the CF Nutrition Cert next month so we'll see.[/QUOTE]

I do find myself intrigued by the fact that although our energy levels are high eating the starchy carbs maybe there is a higher level still for us if we followed the paleo. I just stopped typin and leant across my desk to take a big spoonful of brown rice and eggs, just typin about food makes me hungry.

That is the biggest avatar i have ever seen Christin :D

Patrick Haskell 12-19-2008 06:21 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
Well, Kirez covered this topic about as well as anyone could, but I might as well relate my own experience, because I was in a similar position as you guys (although at a lower level of performance).

[QUOTE=Scott Jenkins;473791]From the sounds of things I do not have anywhere near the amount of money I would need to feed myself on the paleo foods, cheap things like pasta and potatoes bulking out my fish/fruit and veg are essential to me or I would be down to 160lb in a month. Also since my diet has consisted of these foods without any noticeable negatives in my energy levels I will probably stick to my present diet. I do really like all the paleo foods and they are actually things I would choose to eat so maybe a start would be to bring them in a little more and cook a little less pasta per day.[/QUOTE]

The cost issue is a big deal. Part of the reason there is such a huge backing for hi-carb diets is simply that it takes so much more resources to produce meat than cereals. We quite simply could never maintain the current population of the earth on a paleo diet. (There's a reason that civilizaton coincided with the advent of agriculture.) This is a complex moral question, which I've chosen to blatantly dodge in pursuit of the best life I can give myself and my family.


[QUOTE=Richard Vanmeerbeek;473863]I'm a carb machine, Patrick's idea sounds very good on paper, but it's just not manageable for me at the moment, I take the same position as Scott. Bread is a part of my life on a daily basis, that's how we eat over here (I've always been annoyed by the lack of decent bakeries in California btw). When I have spaghettis in the house, it's what I eat 2 days in a row and I really feel like it boosts my system, I'm just so used to it ! My performances keep improving, I don't feel the need to re-think my diet, unless I start regressing at some point.

Why are carbs the devil ? :shrug:[/QUOTE]

During my SS cycle, I was eating 3 sandwiches a day, and pizza and pasta each once per week. On the days after I got the extra carbs for dinner, I did notice a drop in energy levels and huge increase in morning hunger, but otherwise I didn't think the carbs affected me. My performance was good, though, and I was setting PRs every workout (CNS adaptation being what it is). However, I decided to give the paleo diet a shot, since a couple weeks of change couldn't hurt.

I seldom ate sugar, so I started by cutting out one sandwhich, then another, and then another, and my performance took off, even on exercises and workouts where I had already exhausted CNS gains. I started eating eggs every day, carrying bags of almonds, other nuts, and beef jerky to have fat/protein rich snacks to get me through. I started packing up tupperwares full of spinach or broccoli drizzled in EVOO and sprinkled with garlic salt. It was definitely more work to keep the engine fed, but it was huge for keeping my energy level constant (not necessarily increasing it). The first few weeks were tough, as it affected my sleep some, but because I was gradual about it, I never felt short on energy unless I missed sleep too many days in a row.

I strongly recommend trying a Paleo diet for three weeks and seeing how it works for you at the end of that period. You may not be as carb sensitive as me (and certainly not as much as Kirez), and you can then make an informed decision to return to your customary, more affordable diet. Even if you can't afford to go wholly paleo at 4,000 KCal/day, you could make limited changes in that regard. Start by replacing rice and potatoes with sweet potatoes/yams/squash. Cut out a serving of grains per day per week until they are gone for a full week and replaced by nuts, eggs, meat and even dairy (still some carbs there).

I still eat lots of dairy (whole milk, plain yoghurt, cheese) and some legumes (pinto/black beans, chick peas, green beans, peas). You could do something similar, but include oatmeal and an entire cheat day. You might even go further than me, eliminate dried fruits and uncurdled milk (which has more sugar than cheese or yoghurt). If I were in charge of the cooking in my house, I'd try that, but as it is being away from home for 10-11 hours/day plus my workouts, it's too much to tackle right now.

[QUOTE=Scott Jenkins;474557]Filthy Fifty on the main site and it has burpees, maybe if I do a sprawl version where I kick my legs back and land in a press up the back irritation will not happen.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a good notion, Scott. That's the way I do mine. Might be why they don't irritate my back. I figured it was staying off the toes on the squats, but Kirez is in the know, as always.

Nik Nichols 12-19-2008 07:39 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
How's the back? You up for the 50?

Scott Jenkins 12-19-2008 07:54 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
Thanks Patrick, that answered some questions that are still rattling around my head, especially where I would get the bulk of my food from. The broccoli and spinach in tuppleware will definately be very welcome, my two favourite veg and also sweet potatoes are another favourite of mine.

Most might think Christmas would be a bad time to start a new diet, I think it will be the perfect time as with the abundance of food in every house I will be visiting I can get huge servings of all the right stuff. I will try going 80% paleo from Monday (big night out Saturday, probably end up in Kebab house) and into the new year. Otherwise I will never know.

Nik - If they let me leave work early I will hit the Filthy Fifty in about 4 hours, if not I will do it tomorrow morning and double it up with tomorrows WOD.

Carla Tremblay 12-19-2008 09:09 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
[QUOTE=Scott Jenkins;474557]
Is there a paleo replacement for this which would do the job of not leaving me hungry all day?
[/QUOTE]

It will be hard to replace your pasta, bread, and potatoes with just broccoli to keep you full. Broccoli is filling but I don't think it is enough. You can also eat some fruit and increase your fat intake. 1/2 cup of macadamia nuts (my new favorite snack) has 480 calories, 51 g fat, 9 g carbs, and 5 g protein. Also, pour olive oil on your veggies and coconut milk or oil on your fruit.

I can't wait to see what you will be able to accomplish after 3 weeks of paleo changes! You are already a beast!

Scott Jenkins 12-19-2008 09:33 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
[QUOTE=Carla Tremblay;474745]It will be hard to replace your pasta, bread, and potatoes with just broccoli to keep you full. Broccoli is filling but I don't think it is enough. You can also eat some fruit and increase your fat intake. 1/2 cup of macadamia nuts (my new favorite snack) has 480 calories, 51 g fat, 9 g carbs, and 5 g protein. Also, pour olive oil on your veggies and coconut milk or oil on your fruit.

I can't wait to see what you will be able to accomplish after 3 weeks of paleo changes! You are already a beast![/QUOTE]

Thanks Carla, never had macadamia nuts, I mostly have pistachio's or cashews , are these ok? 480 calories in half a cup of anything is amazing, I will go hunting for some tomorrow. I am also surprised that Patrick said I could have Sweet Potato which I thought would be as carb heavy as normal potato. I will also be looking on your log for some more food options, now I know your also following the diet. The biggest hurdle will be convincing the girls to also change there diets as last time i mentioned it the extra fat did not go down too well.

Patrick Haskell 12-19-2008 09:56 AM

Re: A Bears Tale
 
Any nut will pack a punch for fat calories. Macadamias are preferred because they are heavy on omega 3s (as are walnuts), whereas most other nuts are weighted toward the omega 6 end of the spectrum. (This is just wrt their polyunsaturated fats. They also have a good amount of good monounsaturated fat and some of that delicious saturated fat.)

Sweet potatoes are carb heavy and have a reasonably high glycemic index, but they are also probably the nutritionally most complete vegetable there is, so the cost-benefit analysis is very different than it is for white potatoes, white flour, rice, or sweetened whole grain breads. (I do think that bitter whole grain breads probably land in a decent middle ground, but that depends on how well you handle wheat. I think my digestive system doesn't care for it, so I went wholly non-wheat, aside from the rare cheat.)

If you can focus your heavy carbs (e.g., fruits and sweet potatoes) during the PWO window and couple them to protein, the insulin response will work in your favor by shunting glycogen and protein to the temporarily insulin-sensitized muscles.

Bringing the rest of the family along for the ride is a huge challenge. Because Margaret doesn't eat fish, I take the opportunity to cook myself a few meals worth of fish whenever pasta or pizza are on the menu. With Gabriel allergic to eggs, dairy, and some nuts, I'm not about to restrict the kids diet any further.


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