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steven 01-05-2003 08:36 PM

The standard advice has always been to take in a carb to protein ratio of 4 to 1 after a workout as your " window" is supposed to be open. While I am no endurance freak I do enjoy hard mountain bike rides of 2-4 hours during prime bike season. Can the Paleo diet support this kind of duration? It is hard to imagine having the stores of glucose to go this long on veggies and nuts. However I am giving it a try as something sounds right about it. I've started by cutting my whole grain intake in half.
Additionally, I really need my Hammer Gel on long rides. Where would this sit in the Paleo view?

Robert Wolf 01-05-2003 10:09 PM

Hey steven-

This book:
* The Triathlete's Training Bible: A Complete Training Guide for the Competitive Multisport Athlete -- Joe Friel

Takes a look at what you are talking about. Joe Friel was bet by Lorne Cordain ( that if he changed over to a paleo diet his performance would improve. Cordain won. Long duration events are improved by increased fat consumption. This is still not widely known but it is getting out there. One does need adequate glycogen for quick sprints and efforts which exceed the lactate threshold... this is where gel comes in...I hae some theroies on this but I am fading right now! Give the zone or paleo diet a read as well as the friel book. Give yourself about three weeks to adapt to the higher fat intake and then watch your indurance increase as well as your recovery.
Hope this helps!

Tyler Hass 01-06-2003 01:25 AM

What do you think of Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) as a quick source of energy. It is the special type of fat that is found in coconut oil.
Supposedly, it burns very quickly and works well as an immediate source of energy.
Depending on what Robb says, I would suggest going to and looking into getting some of their Virgin Coconut Oil from Tropical Traditions. I bought some at the store for comparision to the TT VCO. No comparison, the Omega brand smelled like plastic and tastes awful.
If not good for athletes, it still has a lot of other good uses. I just got done reading "The Healing Miracles of Coconut Oil" by Bruce Fife, and I'm convinced of the health benefits of VCO.

Robert Wolf 01-06-2003 08:33 AM

Hey Tyler-

MCT's...they travel in the blood via albumin instead of chylomicrons, do not requite carnitine to enter the cell/mitochondria...and they certianly do burn PREFERENTIALLY to other fats but I really do not know if it is a "quicker" energy souce. The more fat adapted a person is the faster they can access fat for energy even in very short duration situations but the glycogen is still key to maximize intensity. When I ski, snowshoe or hike I take coconut oil with me. it is the lightest most calorie dense food I can think of other than gnawing on butter! I will do some perusing of medline and see if I can find anything. I if studies have been doen I doubt if it is in fat adapted people.

Scott Parker 01-06-2003 09:39 AM


i am also (or used to be) into the sports gels too. i would take these along with the traditional "nutrition" bars on day and multi-day climbs because they're light and convient. in keeping with the paleo diet, what do you suggest taking along instead? what's the deal w/ coconut oil? what else do you eat when hiking/biking? also, how do you become more fat adaptable, and are they ways to make it happen sooner?

by the way, thanks for the previous advice on the paleo diet. so far things are going really well and i feel better already; not the "up and down" feeling i had before. but since starting crossfit and the new diet my appetite has become more voracious than before! is this normal? thanks!


Robert Wolf 01-06-2003 12:01 PM

hey scott-

Follow tylers link above about the coconut oil. That is a great source of calories when on the long as it is not hot. The stuff melts! (just need a tight container in this case) I am no where near the outdoorsman you are but when I go out and need to really conserve weight I make some jerky ( look for the food prep links or something like that) dried fruit and coconut oil. I pack a multivite and that is it if I am really bare-bones-ing it.

The adaptation to fat happens over several weeks. Eating more fat is the main driver for the shift...the body tends to burn whatever macronutrient is in excess...that is why being a sugar burner sux!

A voracious appetite without bloodsugar crashes sounds pretty good to me. The difference between being hungry and "hormanal hunger" from an insulin crash I am sure you are noticing to be quite pronounced. Much less snappyness and roadrage!

Im glad things are going well!

Scott Parker 01-06-2003 12:22 PM

thanks robert!

yeah, it's interesting, because when i'm hungry, it's not a craving for sugar anymore like it used to be, i am actually starting to "crave" what i am supposed to be eating! i'll probably be heading out ice climbing for the day on friday, so i'll give your suggestions a try! thanks again!


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