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-   -   How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping. (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=83704)

Dakota Base 08-20-2013 01:07 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I have been following this thread with diminishing interest since the start, as we're all kinda kicking a ball around and talking about something potentially serious, but has no real solution, as no other sports association has done well at solving the same issue, despite best efforts.

Two low level comments first:

I haven't seen what I would call "cost prohibitive" prices on PED's. I've never taken them, but have been 'adjacent' enough to have ran the numbers to know it would fit into my budget, especially if it would mean the difference in performance improvement to gain sponsorship.

I don't believe, admitting that I'm new enough to NOT have all of the information, that the way the rules are written, that it could properly manage and prevent PED use for competitive Crossfit. Even to the extent that others have mentioned that as soon as you sign up for the Open and consent to testing, you still have a LONG TIME out of a year that you could use PED's and cycle off, maintaining benefits. For example, a guy that has a big gas tank, but not a big enough engine to handle the weights thrown around at Regionals and Games could use anabolics to strengthen himself in the off season, sign up last minute for the Open, and never pop on the test. There ARE PED's that you have to be on at the time to reap the full benefits, as in some of the recovery enhancers or VO2M boosters (EPO), but they would definitely supplement progress during a training cycle even if they didn't leave a lasting effect through competition.

[B]BUT my main comment is about Testosterone Therapy patients, and larger implications.[/B] Frankly, this is where things get hairy to me. Not specifically about testosterone therapy itself, but prescribed medication in general.

Ultimately, it's just way too hard to draw definitive lines that don't screw one group or the other over hard enough to warrant a rule change. Make it too strict and you weed out too many competitors that weren't using PED's for competitive advantage, make it too lax and you might as well kick the doors wide open.

My problem with writing succinct rules about prescription exemptions is thus: Any tom, dick, or harry gets injured in a car accident, it's not unlikely that they will get prescribed pain killers as well as potentially some sort of steroid that would aid in their recovery. In my own professional athletic career (sport NOT governed, nor really benefited by traditional PED's), my sports therapists have often prescribed recovery enhancing steroids to get me back after severe injuries. It's up to my therapists and my own judgment as to whether doping is pertinent at the time to get back in the game sooner than later.

I also get regular steroid injections to deal with chronic pain caused by an injury several years ago. Different type of steroid, but it shows up on screens the same.

Either of these cause me to pop positive on occupational drug screens, let alone PED urinalysis.

Would it be fair for me to be disqualified from competition because I need steroid injections to manage chronic pain (much like guys with morphine pumps)? If I get in a car wreck and my doctor gives me a steroid to help me recover before a competition cycle, should I be disqualified? Alternatively, could I take advantage of the system knowing that I have an "excuse" for popping positive and use my pain management to hide my use of performance enhancing drugs?

The line gets so grey so fast that, again, we can never draw definitive rules to prevent any and all doping. That's why we have governing boards and conduct inquiries.

Frankly, I believe that if boards have a system to allow 'prescription exemptions', then the athletes should have to attest BEFORE the testing, BEFORE the competition that they are taking it, so when they are caught later, it's not an investigation, rather just a validation that what they said was true.

Sean Dunston 08-20-2013 05:19 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Brett Valego;1188104]it's also crossfit hq doing the testing, no? not an independent 3rd party or USADA/WADA? then it's all BS to me. even if froning or someone else who is 'known' tested positive (not that they'd even select them 'randomly' for a test) they wouldn't let those result be known. these guys are the poster boys for cfit. they couldn't risk having them be caught using PEDs![/QUOTE]

You can't be serious. Have you ever been involved with drug testing before?
I just went through a weekend of drug testing athletes a week ago up in NJ.
Following USADA or WADA standards/protocol is not difficult. You just need to make sure that the chain of custody is taken care of and the labs handle the analysis.

[QUOTE=Shawn M Wilson;1188138]What would be worse:

Finding out a poster child was using

Or

Finding out Cf HQ knew they were using and hid it

One shows the integrity of HQ keeping it clean even at the loss of some face/pr from a poster child

The other puts nails in the coffin that one could ever trust HQ and that everything is just a farce.

[B]I doubt HQ would let it slide knowing that, and their past history on nipping stuff in the bud [/b][/QUOTE]

^^^that^^*

Sean Dunston 08-20-2013 05:22 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Dakota Base;1188158]I have been following this thread with diminishing interest since the start, as we're all kinda kicking a ball around and talking about something potentially serious, but has no real solution, as no other sports association has done well at solving the same issue, despite best efforts.

Two low level comments first:

I haven't seen what I would call "cost prohibitive" prices on PED's. I've never taken them, but have been 'adjacent' enough to have ran the numbers to know it would fit into my budget, especially if it would mean the difference in performance improvement to gain sponsorship.

I don't believe, admitting that I'm new enough to NOT have all of the information, that the way the rules are written, that it could properly manage and prevent PED use for competitive Crossfit. Even to the extent that others have mentioned that as soon as you sign up for the Open and consent to testing, you still have a LONG TIME out of a year that you could use PED's and cycle off, maintaining benefits. For example, a guy that has a big gas tank, but not a big enough engine to handle the weights thrown around at Regionals and Games could use anabolics to strengthen himself in the off season, sign up last minute for the Open, and never pop on the test. There ARE PED's that you have to be on at the time to reap the full benefits, as in some of the recovery enhancers or VO2M boosters (EPO), but they would definitely supplement progress during a training cycle even if they didn't leave a lasting effect through competition.

[B]BUT my main comment is about Testosterone Therapy patients, and larger implications.[/B] Frankly, this is where things get hairy to me. Not specifically about testosterone therapy itself, but prescribed medication in general.

Ultimately, it's just way too hard to draw definitive lines that don't screw one group or the other over hard enough to warrant a rule change. Make it too strict and you weed out too many competitors that weren't using PED's for competitive advantage, make it too lax and you might as well kick the doors wide open.

My problem with writing succinct rules about prescription exemptions is thus: Any tom, dick, or harry gets injured in a car accident, it's not unlikely that they will get prescribed pain killers as well as potentially some sort of steroid that would aid in their recovery. In my own professional athletic career (sport NOT governed, nor really benefited by traditional PED's), my sports therapists have often prescribed recovery enhancing steroids to get me back after severe injuries. It's up to my therapists and my own judgment as to whether doping is pertinent at the time to get back in the game sooner than later.

I also get regular steroid injections to deal with chronic pain caused by an injury several years ago. Different type of steroid, but it shows up on screens the same.

Either of these cause me to pop positive on occupational drug screens, let alone PED urinalysis.

Would it be fair for me to be disqualified from competition because I need steroid injections to manage chronic pain (much like guys with morphine pumps)? If I get in a car wreck and my doctor gives me a steroid to help me recover before a competition cycle, should I be disqualified? Alternatively, could I take advantage of the system knowing that I have an "excuse" for popping positive and use my pain management to hide my use of performance enhancing drugs?

The line gets so grey so fast that, again, we can never draw definitive rules to prevent any and all doping. That's why we have governing boards and conduct inquiries.

Frankly, I believe that if boards have a system to allow 'prescription exemptions', then the athletes should have to attest BEFORE the testing, BEFORE the competition that they are taking it, so when they are caught later, it's not an investigation, rather just a validation that what they said was true.[/QUOTE]

For certain steroids, prescribed by a doctor for a legitimate purpose, you can get a Therapuetic Use Exception. Testosterone Replacemet Therapy is not one of them.

Blaise Davis 08-20-2013 09:30 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I think trt could be fair if you were in the allotted normal testosterone levels....I think when they are looking at blood test they look at the t level and some sort of other ratio cant remember....

Shawn M Wilson 08-21-2013 05:04 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
At 38 I take TRT and wish I didn't have too. I got off it for a few months on my own choice and my wife made me get back on it.

Total lack of energy as well as other "manly" issues made life not fun.

My dr was surprised at how low I was.

Part of it all is we live like we do sometimes not realizing how low we might be until we randomly get it checked. I would have neve checked it if a buddy had not recommend it.
Now I see a specialist vs a normal FP doc.

Does this mean I'm cheating? I would say no as other than more energy and better "man" results I'm not faster, stronger, recovering quicker, etc...

Perhaps if I was getting double or triple what I'm getting, maybe, but what dr in their right mind would do that... Too much T can also convert to estrogen and I'd rather not have that issue :)

John Holcombe 08-21-2013 12:21 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Shawn M Wilson;1188315]At 38 I take TRT and wish I didn't have too. I got off it for a few months on my own choice and my wife made me get back on it.

Total lack of energy as well as other "manly" issues made life not fun.

My dr was surprised at how low I was.

Part of it all is we live like we do sometimes not realizing how low we might be until we randomly get it checked. I would have neve checked it if a buddy had not recommend it.
Now I see a specialist vs a normal FP doc.

Does this mean I'm cheating? I would say no as other than more energy and better "man" results I'm not faster, stronger, recovering quicker, etc...

Perhaps if I was getting double or triple what I'm getting, maybe, but what dr in their right mind would do that... Too much T can also convert to estrogen and I'd rather not have that issue :)[/QUOTE]

Do you get enough to put you in the middle of the "normal" range? Is it like weekly injections or that cream stuff that you apply to your skin?

Shawn M Wilson 08-21-2013 12:53 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
It's injection every 2 week. Puts me in normal to slightly below normal range.

Have talked about going weekly but I feel fine on the dose I'm on and am not sure if I want to get stuck every week.

As a guy that needed it I wouldn't pass it up. Even if I somehow (haha) qualified for regionals and all, id still stay on it and miss the opportunity.

The TRT wouldn't have gotten me there, but it would have helped me to function enough to train to get there.

Timothy Mabe 08-21-2013 01:02 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I know someone who does TRT and he does regular testing to stay in NORMAL ranges. I would argue that I do not see him recover or perform any better than the next guy. Maybe if he was taking more meds than he should he could but as it was explained to me he would have bad side effects if he did that. I think this is the reason that TRT is excepted in MMA now as long as the fighter stays within a normal test range.

Rodney Sobelson 08-21-2013 01:55 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I was watching the men's games 40+ finals and one of the guys clearly had a case of gyno. I think we all know how one gets gyno, and I haven't heard anything in the press about an individual testing positive for any PEDs at the 2013 games. So, that being said, obviously the testing isn't very stringent. You don't get gyno from just a Paleo diet.

Charles Golden 08-21-2013 02:34 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Rodney Sobelson;1188535]I was watching the men's games 40+ finals and one of the guys clearly had a case of gyno. I think we all know how one gets gyno, and I haven't heard anything in the press about an individual testing positive for any PEDs at the 2013 games. So, that being said, obviously the testing isn't very stringent. You don't get gyno from just a Paleo diet.[/QUOTE]

I think they only test the winners of each Masters division.


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