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-   -   Explain why the WOD is enough (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=39518)

Patrick Skinner 11-20-2008 06:33 PM

Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Someone please link to or explain why the WOD is enough. My g/f does not believe it is enough to stay fit. I have tried to describe why it is enough to her with no luck.

Also at the crossfit gyms are people doing more than the WOD? If so what extra work is involved?

Lorenzo Inglese 11-20-2008 07:10 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
I think that for someone who is not a competitive athlete, the WOD is enough. It takes time for people to accept this because traditional views on fitness place emphasis on long workouts. The classic "more is better" philosophy is at work here. The beauty of the WODs is that you can include them in programming for other sports such as Oly lifting, MMA, track, football.

I myself train at a much higher volume because:
A: I'm only 24 years old
B: Genetically I recover quickly from exercise
C: I want to be a better martial artist

My training included the main site WOD 4-5 days a week, 2-3 sprinting sessions, 4-5 boxing/MMA sessions, and additional stretching daily. Of course recovery must be taken into account and this is a personal thing with too many variables (sleep, diet, hydration, etc.)

The WODs are usually not long duration. However, the time actually being spend is of more value to an athlete because there is more more work done per unit of time than a lazy, multi-set routine. This is what causes the neuroendocrine response and it's the reason elite-level CrossFit athletes have great bodies that actually perform well.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy Gann 11-20-2008 07:33 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Go [URL="http://journal.crossfit.com/2002/10/what-is-fitness-by-greg-glassm.tpl#featureArticleTitle"]here[/URL] WFS and download the free pdf ....

Leonid Soubbotine 11-20-2008 07:38 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
It's like describing how it is to drive, but before you do it - you'll never understand.

Some things you just have to try.

"Cindy" usually answers such questions pretty fast.

Bob Guere 11-20-2008 07:56 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[quote=Leonid Soubbotine;451991]It's like describing how it is to drive, but before you do it - you'll never understand.

Some things you just have to try.

"Cindy" usually answers such questions pretty fast.[/quote]

Good answer. Ditto.

Brett Dartt 11-20-2008 08:00 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
like above said. has she actually tried it? do it 100% and she will have her own answer. it shouldnt be to hard for her to try if doesnt even seem like enough.

let us know what she thinks afterward:pepper:

Kurt Armbruster 11-20-2008 08:03 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
How about some annecdotal evidence:

I've been doing CrossFit since April. I started out fairly unconditioned.

The big question is; what is the goal?

If it's weight loss, I've knocked off around 20 lb since starting CrossFit, doing the WOD exclusively (including warm-up) and a few minor changes in diet (ie: no more pop/soda, changing snacks from chips to nuts, etc).

And in that time, my body shape (shoulders to waist) has gone from /\ to \/.

Regarding strength, I haven't done a CrossFit Total recently (on vacation when it came up) but In the first couple of months my score did go up by about 10%

Jason David 11-20-2008 08:06 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;451926]Someone please link to or explain why the WOD is enough. My g/f does not believe it is enough to stay fit. I have tried to describe why it is enough to her with no luck.

[B]Also at the crossfit gyms are people doing more than the WOD? If so what extra work is involved?[/[/B]QUOTE]


Most do warmup and skill practice...Google "Nicole overhead Squat"
Show that to your g/f and tell her all she does is the WOD...See if she thinks Nicole is 'fit'?

Harry Stine 11-20-2008 08:07 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
I'm not as experienced as some other posters who are much more knowledgeable, but I think I have a good way of reasoning this. What your g/f wants from 'fitness' might be a good starting point. I asked earlier and got answers from people on these boards who testify that they had gotten significantly stronger from just doing the WOD. The testimonials are full of individuals who report their weight loss/gain successes. I'm sure most will testify that they only did the WOD as far as training was concerned (diet was probably a major factor in most cases, of course). With cardiorespiratory endurance you can see the times people post for their pure running WODs. I think the majority fall around a 22:00 5k.


Naturally, you have a problem if she wants to be exceptionally good at one thing. If she wants to be a marathoner, the WOD (no one needs to be told) won't be enough. As someone who came from more of an endurance background, I've found it a bit disconcerting when they post 3 max effort days in a row. That turns into 5 straight days without breaking a sweat, which would put me on edge. Still, if the 22:00 5k is good enough for her...well, there you have it. If not, then crossfit endurance or (for the opposite purposes) MEBB.

Edit: I took too long writing. Kurt Armbruster has hit the nail on the head IMO.

Brian Bedell 11-20-2008 09:33 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
I think a better question is "why is the wod TOO much for most people." She either has not tried it, or does not try or have the ability to workout at the intensity level you are supposed to.

Gerhard Lavin 11-21-2008 03:43 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Has Crossfit ever said the WOD is enough? You should be doing th CF warmup or similar followed by the WOD and then some skill work. You also should learning new sports regularly. The WOD is only part of the CF puzzle.

Gavin Harrison 11-21-2008 10:38 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Ger Lavin;452198]Has Crossfit ever said the WOD is enough? You should be doing th CF warmup or similar followed by the WOD and then some skill work. You also should learning new sports regularly. The WOD is only part of the CF puzzle.[/QUOTE]

This is necessary for sport, not fitness..

Anyway, most crossfit WODs provide a HUGE hormonal response which you simply DO NOT GET from most other types of exercise without pharmaceutic aid. This is the key to their potency. It forces an adaptation process which causes your body to change even when you are not working out, which you do not get from long slow exercise. Pure strength training provides a similar adaptation cycle, with a lower hormonal response, but endurance training does not provide anything like it.

Also, I agree with everyone who's already posted.. if she hasn't tried doing at least WOD, appropriately scaled, hard, then she should..

S.S. 11-21-2008 10:43 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Gavin Harrison;452457]This is necessary for sport, not fitness..
[/QUOTE]

I think Greg would disagree:

World-Class [U][B]Fitness[/B][/U] in 100 Words:
Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. [B][U]Regularly learn and play new sports[/U][/B].

Sean Dunston 11-21-2008 11:24 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
There is a video where Eva T answers this question regarding if the WODs are enough
She says something to the effect that if you think the WOD isn't enough, you aren't doing it hard enough.

edit-

here it is - not wfs due to multiple "F bombs"
[url]http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_AllisonNYCWebisode5n.wmv[/url]

Gavin Harrison 11-21-2008 11:57 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Shane Skowron;452465]I think Greg would disagree:

World-Class [U][B]Fitness[/B][/U] in 100 Words:
Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. [B][U]Regularly learn and play new sports[/U][/B].[/QUOTE]

While it's in the "Fitness in 100 word", I don't think all crossfitters engage in [i]new[/i] sports regularly, or they pick one and work hard for that, OR have crossfit as their sport. Also, I believe one can obtain wellness and fitness without actively engaging in sport, outside of crossfit.

Patrick Skinner 11-21-2008 03:41 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Wow, lots of quick responses.

To clarify some things. I have said most of your responses to her.
Her background is in long distance running, 30 miles a week. So she isn't exactly concerned with getting fit because she is, but she just wants to find a way to be more fit, and she doesn't want extra miles to be the answer.

She thinks that those in the videos performing say a 4min workout do other things in their workout to remain that fit and to have the ability to perform those workouts in 4mins.

She has done many of the workouts and even tried it for about a 4 week period with plenty of scaled versions. No surprise but she liked Murph the best due to the running emphasis and disliked nearly any workout that included weights., especially the 1-1-1-1-1 variety which required max effort. She did find the metcons to be taxing and difficult but couldnt get past the fact that for example FGB was over in 17mins and that was it for the day. She always included at least a mile warmup and either a timed mile or a mile cooldown, so that she felt it was a "long enough" workout.

S.S. 11-21-2008 05:55 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;452721]So she isn't exactly concerned with getting fit because she is, but she just wants to find a way to be more fit
[/quote]

That's a loaded statement.

[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;452721]
She thinks that those in the videos performing say a 4min workout do other things in their workout to remain that fit and to have the ability to perform those workouts in 4mins.

She has done many of the workouts and even tried it for about a 4 week period with plenty of scaled versions. No surprise but she liked Murph the best due to the running emphasis and disliked nearly any workout that included weights., especially the 1-1-1-1-1 variety which required max effort. She did find the metcons to be taxing and difficult but couldnt get past the fact that for example FGB was over in 17mins and that was it for the day. She always included at least a mile warmup and either a timed mile or a mile cooldown, so that she felt it was a "long enough" workout.[/QUOTE]

If she didn't think that FGB was "enough" for the day, it's really obvious she wasn't trying her hardest. That is among the most metabolically-taxing workouts and there is no way you can put everything you've got into that one and still think it's not enough.

If she wants to do a mile warmup and a mile time trial every now and then, that is perfectly acceptable. In fact, those CFers who want to be better runners will add sprints or short intervals at some point after their WOD. However, the most elite CFers just do a warmup, the WOD, and some skill work, only occasionally doing a 2nd WOD.

No offense to your friend, but 30 miles a week really isn't a great deal of running. It's more than most Crossfitters do, but my guess is that she thinks about workouts more in terms of time spent working out rather than quality or intensity of the workout. Running 30mpw will take longer than all the WODs in a week combined, but even the best distance runners know that quality of mileage is far more important than quantity. Same with CF workouts.

Gavin Harrison 11-21-2008 08:14 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
from the crossfit endurance folks: [url]http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFitEndruance_AgainFaster_BMac.mov[/url] (wfs)

Christian Gotcher 11-21-2008 08:42 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
I've found that beginners at an activity have two power modes- marginal and off. They're uncomfortable really throwing themselves at something because they've never done it before, and it takes a while to get them to the level where they're actually gunning for it.

It sounds like she simply isn't at the stage where she's able or willing to throw the kind of intensity into the WODs that they need. If she sticks with it, though, with a real effort to turn up the heat, that will come, I'm sure. "Consistency before intensity," right?

Byron Garcia 11-22-2008 12:25 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Gavin Harrison;452543]While it's in the "Fitness in 100 word", I don't think all crossfitters engage in [i]new[/i] sports regularly, or they pick one and work hard for that, OR have crossfit as their sport. Also, I believe one can obtain wellness and fitness without actively engaging in sport, outside of crossfit.[/QUOTE]

Even so, maybe they should. From the CrossFit Journal article "What is Fitness?" by Coach Greg Glassman:

Sport plays a wonderful role in fitness. Sport is the application of fitness in a fantastic atmosphere of competition and mastery. Training efforts typically include relatively predictable repetitive movements and provide limited opportunity for the essential
combination of our ten general physical skills. It is, after all, the combined expression, or application, of the ten general skills that is our motivation for their development in the first place. Sports and games like soccer, martial arts, baseball, and basketball in
contrast to our training workouts have more varied and less predictable movements. But, where sports develop and require all ten general skills simultaneously, they do so slowly compared to our strength and conditioning regimen. Sport is better, in our view, at
expression and testing of skills than it is at developing these same skills. Both expression and development are crucial to our fitness. Sport in many respects more closely mimics the demands of nature than does our training. We encourage and expect our athletes to engage in regular sports efforts in addition to all of their strength and conditioning work.

David Ryan Thomas 11-22-2008 07:38 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Shane Skowron;452812]That's a loaded statement.



If she didn't think that FGB was "enough" for the day, it's really obvious she wasn't trying her hardest. That is among the most metabolically-taxing workouts and there is no way you can put everything you've got into that one and still think it's not enough.

If she wants to do a mile warmup and a mile time trial every now and then, that is perfectly acceptable. In fact, those CFers who want to be better runners will add sprints or short intervals at some point after their WOD. However, the most elite CFers just do a warmup, the WOD, and [B]some skill work[/B], only occasionally doing a 2nd WOD.

No offense to your friend, but 30 miles a week really isn't a great deal of running. It's more than most Crossfitters do, but my guess is that she thinks about workouts more in terms of time spent working out rather than quality or intensity of the workout. Running 30mpw will take longer than all the WODs in a week combined, but even the best distance runners know that quality of mileage is far more important than quantity. Same with CF workouts.[/QUOTE]


Could you elaborate? What is skill work?

S.S. 11-22-2008 08:31 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=David Ryan Thomas;453458]Could you elaborate? What is skill work?[/QUOTE]

Skill work usually involves movements and exercises that are focused more on balance, coordination, and agility than the more intensive aspects of fitness. Doing skill work usually won't completely wreck you like a WOD and can be pretty fun.

What types of skills you work on depends on your goals and what sports you play, if any. Perfecting form for exercises, especially the technical ones like muscle-ups and snatches can be put in this category.

Examples of skill work: handstands and freestanding HSPUs, front levers, back levers, planches, high box jumps, jumproping techniques, working on swimming strokes, baseball pitching and hitting, turkish getups, flips and trampoline work, kip-ups from the ground, hockey shots, parkour techniques...

The list is infinite.

David Reed 11-23-2008 03:03 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;452721]Wow, lots of quick responses.

To clarify some things. I have said most of your responses to her.
Her background is in long distance running, 30 miles a week. So she isn't exactly concerned with getting fit because she is, but she just wants to find a way to be more fit, and she doesn't want extra miles to be the answer.

She thinks that those in the videos performing say a 4min workout do other things in their workout to remain that fit and to have the ability to perform those workouts in 4mins.

She has done many of the workouts and even tried it for about a 4 week period with plenty of scaled versions. No surprise but she liked Murph the best due to the running emphasis and disliked nearly any workout that included weights., especially the 1-1-1-1-1 variety which required max effort. She did find the metcons to be taxing and difficult but couldnt get past the fact that for example FGB was over in 17mins and that was it for the day. She always included at least a mile warmup and either a timed mile or a mile cooldown, so that she felt it was a "long enough" workout.[/QUOTE]

Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).

Skylar Cook 11-23-2008 05:11 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=David Reed;453868]Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).[/QUOTE]

If she has to scale it...


She's not fit enough for it. :D

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 10:03 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=David Reed;453868]Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery. The point being yes it is difficult for however long it takes you but assuming you can complete in under 10 mins there is no reason you can't do other activity in the day. In the CF games they used Fran and then had the run and then the deadlift burpee event. So it's not like Fran wipes you out for the day.

Also are we led to believe that the "stars" of crossfit are walking in to the gym and doing their 2 or 3 min Fran and walking out? I think this comes back to be an elite athlete or elite crossfit, a little more work than the WOD's is necessary, even if that work is solely skill work.

As far as being not fit enough, that's probably just a take on how you define fit.
If Fran must be scaled I wouldn't say it is necessarily a fitness issue but more likely a strength issue. A marathon runner that has to scale Fran, I would still consider fit, just not strong, but again thats probably just an issue with how one describes "fit."

S.S. 11-24-2008 10:36 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454368]
As far as being not fit enough, that's probably just a take on how you define fit.
If Fran must be scaled I wouldn't say it is necessarily a fitness issue but more likely a strength issue. A marathon runner that has to scale Fran, I would still consider fit, just not strong, but again thats probably just an issue with how one describes "fit."[/QUOTE]


Well according to the CF methodology you are wrong. Strength and fitness are inseparable. One cannot be fit without being strong.

S.S. 11-24-2008 10:44 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454368]I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery. The point being yes it is difficult for however long it takes you but assuming you can complete in under 10 mins there is no reason you can't do other activity in the day. In the CF games they used Fran and then had the run and then the deadlift burpee event. So it's not like Fran wipes you out for the day[/QUOTE]

It's true you can do something 5 minutes after a Fran like run a mile, but unless you are really attached to the idea, there isn't much benefit. It will be next to impossible to perform at maximal or near maximal intensity (e.g. PR range) after hitting a Fran as hard as possible.
And unless there is a good reason to (e.g. you are training for sport) I see no point in doing extra work at less-than-best intensity just for the sake of it. If you are training for a race then occasionally it is a good idea to train at a RPE that is lower than what you can maximally sustain but in general there's little benefit in extra workouts unless you are hitting it as hard as possible.

Justin McGinley 11-24-2008 10:44 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454368]I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery. [/QUOTE]

If you can run a mile 5 minutes after doing Fran, you need to try harder next time. I do most metcon WODs so hard I am still fried 30 minutes later. Running as a "cool down" is an impossibility.

Many runners have a hard time accepting that the WODs are enough, and most of those runners don't know how to go 100% all out during a metcon.

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 03:21 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Shane Skowron;454394]Well according to the CF methodology you are wrong. Strength and fitness are inseparable. One cannot be fit without being strong.[/QUOTE]
Yes Shane I understand by the CF definition of fit that would be the case. And that was the reason I mentioned it in my post. I love crossfit, but I haven't drank the juice quite as hard as you. I'm still able to realize there are other ways to fitness and still try to keep an open mind to those ways rather than simply assuming crossfit is the be all end all to a fitter life. And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. They may not be "crossfit fit" but they are certainly fit.

Justin: I understand and can see how you can't run a mile after Fran. But it is possible someone who has a better endurance background than you an complete a Fran and then do that cooldown run.

Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?

Jacob Cloud 11-24-2008 03:50 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
If she enjoys distance running, fine - let her run distance. I'd focus on pushing her to supplement with lifting heavy **** once or twice a week to help build some strength and muscle mass, which will help her sustain her strength longer during life. Maybe slowly she'll turn around and like a WOD as a replacement every once in awhile, but if not, what's the problem? Sounds like she's relatively healthy and athletic, which is better than most people. Not everyone needs to compete in CF as a sport. Just use some of the keys and integrate that into your training to make you better all around.

I tried to push CF (main site WODs and a local affiliate) on my gf, and she didn't "love" it. I tried SS, and she didn't love it. Now I let her do what she wants for the most part (LSD on the treadmill), with a loving nudge to the squat rack on occasion, and she is making great progress, and is happy and healthier than ever, and is more enthusiastic than ever. She might never squat 200, but she doesn't seem to care, and honestly, neither do I. I'm just glad we get to go to the gym together, and that we're both consistently improving ourselves.

Skylar Cook 11-24-2008 03:52 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]Yes Shane I understand by the CF definition of fit that would be the case. And that was the reason I mentioned it in my post. I love crossfit, but I haven't drank the juice quite as hard as you. I'm still able to realize there are other ways to fitness and still try to keep an open mind to those ways rather than simply assuming crossfit is the be all end all to a fitter life. And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. They may not be "crossfit fit" but they are certainly fit.

Justin: I understand and can see how you can't run a mile after Fran. But it is possible someone who has a better endurance background than you an complete a Fran and then do that cooldown run.

Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?[/QUOTE]

A few points:

1) Ease up a bit bro, you ARE on a CF board, so please accept that most of us are hitting the Kool-Aid pretty hard.

2) Could you please elaborate just what you mean by "fit?" You mentioned that we probably have an issue with how we each define "fit," so what are your criteria for "fitness?" Many here wouldn't call a marathon runner fit, because he is not functional for most things apart from running. Functionality is CF's be all end all fitness definition, and it's tied to strength, stamina, skills, etc. How would you define "fitness?"

3) Cooldown run is entirely different than a mile RUN. I think Justin may be exaggerating a bit here - I think it's entirely possible to hobble a mile after a hard Fran. Slow jogging as a cooldown is possible, but I don't think that's going to fly with most CFers - we don't jog slowly "just to jog." With that said, you show me someone who can put up a [I]respectable[/I] mile time 5 minutes after a balls to the wall Fran, and I'll show you someone who is a F***ING MONSTER.

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 04:01 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Jacob: This post actually started as an explain why the wod is enough. I'm not trying to push her in any direction, rather was just trying to convince her that crossfit is an excellent way to achieve GPP, and that people need not have 1 hr long workouts to see a benefit.

She does occasionally do a modified wod on the one's she enjoys. And I've just been trying to convince her that lifting weights and shorter, more intense runs work just as well if not better at acheiving some of her fitness goals. She also wants variance in her workouts and I've explained that nothing is more varied than xfit.

Christian Gotcher 11-24-2008 04:05 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
You show me someone who could put up a respectable mile time five minutes after Fran... and I'll show you someone who could have done a faster Fran :D

As for the "fit" discussion, I don't think marathoners and long-distance runners [I]who solely practice that sport and show the signs of fringe extremities[/I] are fit by any definition. I focused on running once at the 10-mile range and nothing else, and I couldn't even bench press 125 (I weighed 150). I couldn't sprint fast, do more than 3 pullups, or much else. I thought I was fit, but going into Navy training at that kind of fitness level was a huge wake-up call.

I can't reconcile the inability to lift even one's own BW off the deck (a male long-distance-running friend of mine can deadlift maybe 1/2-3/4 of his BW) with fitness. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I can't reconcile the idea that a mile and a half is 'really long distance' with fitness either...

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 04:19 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Skylar Cook;454682]A few points:

1) Ease up a bit bro, you ARE on a CF board, so please accept that most of us are hitting the Kool-Aid pretty hard.

2) Could you please elaborate just what you mean by "fit?" You mentioned that we probably have an issue with how we each define "fit," so what are your criteria for "fitness?" Many here wouldn't call a marathon runner fit, because he is not functional for most things apart from running. Functionality is CF's be all end all fitness definition, and it's tied to strength, stamina, skills, etc. How would you define "fitness?"

3) Cooldown run is entirely different than a mile RUN. I think Justin may be exaggerating a bit here - I think it's entirely possible to hobble a mile after a hard Fran. Slow jogging as a cooldown is possible, but I don't think that's going to fly with most CFers - we don't jog slowly "just to jog." With that said, you show me someone who can put up a [I]respectable[/I] mile time 5 minutes after a balls to the wall Fran, and I'll show you someone who is a F***ING MONSTER.[/QUOTE]
From dictionary.com : fitness : " the capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort." by this defintion i would describe a marathon runner as fit.

And again I understand it does not fall in line with what crossfit deems as fit, but to just say "they have to scale Fran, they aren't fit" seems narrow minded.

This seems like an agree to disagree point on fit and fitness. The crossfit definition of fitness is the only place where strength, stamina , skills is part of the word fitness. This is fine and I believe those things are necessary, but we as a community shouldn't blow off and disregard the rest of the world's definition and understanding of what fitness is. We can still accept their version of fitness while keeping the crossfit ideals in mind.

Because in the end I think all of us that do crossfit, and do it seriously and take it seriously, as I do, might be wired a bit different than the rest.

Another point we can all agree on is the mile. No respectable mile time will come after a respectable fran, but that mile is meant as a cooldown not as a performance
Someone that can't get their own BW off the deck in my mind just isn't strong. They still might have " the capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort."

Eric Helms 11-24-2008 04:42 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Brian Bedell;452105]I think a better question is "why is the wod TOO much for most people." She either has not tried it, or does not try or have the ability to workout at the intensity level you are supposed to.[/QUOTE]

Good answer!

Skylar Cook 11-24-2008 05:11 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454685]
She does occasionally do a modified wod on the one's she enjoys. And I've just been trying to convince her that lifting weights and shorter, more intense runs work just as well if not better at acheiving some of her fitness goals. She also wants variance in her workouts and I've explained that nothing is more varied than xfit.[/QUOTE]

By only doing the workouts she enjoys, she's not going to ever improve her weaknesses (which, not coincidentally, tend to be those workouts we hate). Which is fine if that's what she wants, but... You get the point.

[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454696]This seems like an agree to disagree point on fit and fitness. The crossfit definition of fitness is the only place where strength, stamina , skills is part of the word fitness. This is fine and I believe those things are necessary, but we as a community shouldn't blow off and disregard the rest of the world's definition and understanding of what fitness is. We can still accept their version of fitness while keeping the crossfit ideals in mind.
[/QUOTE]

Because the CF definition is the only FUNCTIONAL definition of fitness. :D

S.S. 11-24-2008 05:17 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]
Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]
Another point we can all agree on is the mile. No respectable mile time will come after a respectable fran, but that mile is meant as a cooldown not as a performance[/QUOTE]

The closest track event to a Fran is an all-out 800m sprint. Imagine you are doing a track workout of 4x800m all-out sprints. After you do your last 800m sprint, if you still feel good enough to do 1 mile at a good fast pace, it means you didn't try hard enough on your 800's. It does not mean you have better endurance.

Of course anyone will be able to [I]jog[/I] an easy mile after a hard workout, no matter what it is. If you want to do that as a "cooldown," that's fine, but I don't know of much physiological benefit of that other than releasing some of the lactic acid from your legs. The point is, I don't see why you would do something for training if it gives you little to no benefit.

[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656] And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. [/QUOTE]

Well, if you use cardiovascular ability as the sole definition of fitness, this could be the case. But as a marathon runner myself I don't think it's adequate. A good marathoner may be fit for his or her specialized sport, but not as an overall fit human being.

Rayna McGinnis 11-25-2008 08:25 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
i'm going to have to agree with Christian on this one. If all she does is run and something else occassionally, she's probably in GREAT cardio shape... but she's not fit. Fit would mean well rounded. Cardio, resistance, flexibility, etc.

If your gf feels that her running is enough, that's great. If she feels she only wants to do the work outs that sound fun- she'll never get anywhere new because what she thinks is "fun" is going to be what she's good at... NOT where she needs to work on.

If she wants to improve, she's going to have to work on those skills she does not like... like heavy lifting.

Otherwise, she'll never be satisfied with her level of fitness (and if she's looking to improve, then she's not satisfied).

BTW- to practice what I preach---> I HATE running... I'm also planning to attempt my first 5k tonight after I do my CFT... <shrugs>... what can i say... I did a strong woman's comp this weekend, came in 2nd, would have came in first if I would have worked on my running (sprinting) sooner...

Patrick Skinner 11-25-2008 09:13 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Rayna McGinnis;455175]i'm going to have to agree with Christian on this one. If all she does is run and something else occassionally, she's probably in GREAT cardio shape... but she's not fit. Fit would mean well rounded. Cardio, resistance, flexibility, etc.

If your gf feels that her running is enough, that's great. If she feels she only wants to do the work outs that sound fun- she'll never get anywhere new because what she thinks is "fun" is going to be what she's good at... NOT where she needs to work on.

If she wants to improve, she's going to have to work on those skills she does not like... like heavy lifting.

Otherwise, she'll never be satisfied with her level of fitness (and if she's looking to improve, then she's not satisfied).

BTW- to practice what I preach---> I HATE running... I'm also planning to attempt my first 5k tonight after I do my CFT... <shrugs>... what can i say... I did a strong woman's comp this weekend, came in 2nd, would have came in first if I would have worked on my running (sprinting) sooner...[/QUOTE]
I agree the best thing to do is work on your weaknesses. I think she would see significant improvement in her 5k, 10k, 15k times if she were to work on those weaknesses.

This post really has taken some turns from the original topic. The discussioh as been good though.

Brett Dartt 11-25-2008 09:19 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;455211]I agree the best thing to do is work on your weaknesses. I think she would see significant improvement in her 5k, 10k, 15k times if she were to work on those weaknesses.

This post really has taken some turns from the original topic. The discussioh as been good though.[/QUOTE]
theres reports all over the boards of people breaking their pr's in running those distances from doing crossfit:D not me though i HATE running :shrug:


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