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-   -   Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=61461)

Jacob Markowitz 09-13-2010 10:10 AM

Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
I know that a big point of carb-counting diets is to induce ketogenesis and change the way your body metabolizes fat.

Unfortunately, this requires an almost complete removal of carbs from the diet, i.e. bringing carbs down to 5% or so of daily intake.

I've recently reduced my carb intake from probably around 60% on the average day to 30% of my calories, and I'm bringing it down further to 20%.

Will I see any benefits at all from the less-carbs aspect of my diet, or will any benefits be based much more on what I am eating rather than what I'm not?

Walker Fenz 09-13-2010 10:23 AM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
I stumbled on this recently and you may find it valuable too (how the different carb levels affect you)

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-p...rate-continuum (WFS)

So to answer your post' title question: No.

To answer, "Will I see any benefits at all from the less-carbs aspect of my diet" -Yes, anything from better health to weight loss, depending on your intake.

As to, "or will any benefits be based much more on what I am eating rather than what I'm not?" I think the answer is also yes, as you will be affected (either positively or negatively) by everything else you eat.

Ramon Gomez 09-13-2010 11:10 AM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Markowitz (Post 842240)
I know that a big point of carb-counting diets is to induce ketogenesis and change the way your body metabolizes fat.

Unfortunately, this requires an almost complete removal of carbs from the diet, i.e. bringing carbs down to 5% or so of daily intake.

I've recently reduced my carb intake from probably around 60% on the average day to 30% of my calories, and I'm bringing it down further to 20%.

Will I see any benefits at all from the less-carbs aspect of my diet, or will any benefits be based much more on what I am eating rather than what I'm not?

There are two different things there: carb-restriction, and carb-REMOVAL.

Carb-REMOVAL is for non-athletes, and isn't part of a sustainable lifestyle. Plainly, ketogenesis results in lower energy levels, and simulates the effects of starvation. You can't eat like that for the rest of your life, so forget about it.
Carb-restriction, on the other hand, doesn't rely on ketogenesis; it relies on the insulin and hormonal responses caused by the macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat). When you talk about something like Paleo, it also relies on the higher nutritional level of the food involved. You CAN engage in carb-restriction as a lifestyle for the rest of your life.
They aren't the same thing.

Darryl Shaw 09-14-2010 03:25 AM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Markowitz (Post 842240)
I know that a big point of carb-counting diets is to induce ketogenesis and change the way your body metabolizes fat.

Unfortunately, this requires an almost complete removal of carbs from the diet, i.e. bringing carbs down to 5% or so of daily intake.

I've recently reduced my carb intake from probably around 60% on the average day to 30% of my calories, and I'm bringing it down further to 20%.

Will I see any benefits at all from the less-carbs aspect of my diet, or will any benefits be based much more on what I am eating rather than what I'm not?

Fat oxidation increases whenever there is a negative energy balance so you don't need to cut carbs to lose weight just calories.

Energy deficit without reducing dietary carbohydrate alters resting carbohydrate oxidation and fatty acid availability. (wfs)

Jason Peacock 09-14-2010 11:52 AM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
Also, some people are more carb sensitive than others. I found that I need to be very-low-carb (essentially zero carb, I have veggies every couple of days) in order to see improvements.

Just doing 'low-carb' wasn't good enough for me.

And if you think about it, what carbs do you *need*? Meat is good. Fat is good. Veggies & fruit are seasonal, so you'd occasionally get a serving here and there but only with modern agriculture have they become year-round staples.

Brian Bedell 09-14-2010 12:10 PM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Peacock (Post 842826)
Also, some people are more carb sensitive than others. I found that I need to be very-low-carb (essentially zero carb, I have veggies every couple of days) in order to see improvements.

Just doing 'low-carb' wasn't good enough for me.

And if you think about it, what carbs do you *need*? Meat is good. Fat is good. Veggies & fruit are seasonal, so you'd occasionally get a serving here and there but only with modern agriculture have they become year-round staples.

This. It depends on you, your genetics, etc. Experiment and see what works for you. Me, if I drive by a potato farm i need to loosen my belt.

Katherine Derbyshire 09-14-2010 03:05 PM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Peacock (Post 842826)
And if you think about it, what carbs do you *need*? Meat is good. Fat is good. Veggies & fruit are seasonal, so you'd occasionally get a serving here and there but only with modern agriculture have they become year-round staples.

Apples and other fruits will keep for months without refrigeration, either in cold cellars or dried. So will many vegetables. And in tropical climates, of course, fresh produce is available year-round.

You aren't giving our Paleolithic ancestors much credit. Since they survived, I'd guess they knew at least as much as we do about basic food preservation.

Katherine

Chris Mason 09-14-2010 05:46 PM

Re: Does a carb reduction need to result in Ketogenesis to be effective?
 
The short answer is very likely yes. Carb reduction should aid your insulin sensitivity which in turn should result in some body fat loss unless you are consuming calories significantly in excess of what you use.


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