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-   -   Lyle McDonald on Crossfit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=55494)

Alex Europa 02-12-2010 06:10 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Anderson (Post 738685)
Rafe wins the reading comprehension award in a landslide.

Evan, you win the (old) new troll award by a landslide. The most helpful thing that you've posted in your 2+ years as a member is how best to search for weight training equipment on craigslist. Maybe you should hold your opinions until you actually have something of value to add.

- Alex

Donald Lee 02-12-2010 08:11 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
All,

Lyle has a Masters in Exercise Physiology. He does not have a Nutrition degree. He wrote diet books because he felt like it and because he is interested in dieting. He has written a lot about exercise in his articles and even a bit in his diet books. He chooses not to explain complicated physiology because it usually goes over the top of the head of layreaders.

I shall attempt to explain a bit of the physiology.

1. In regards to aerobic development, low intensity work develops the slow twitch muscle fibers, eccentrically hypertrophies the heart so that it can pump out more blood and hence more oxygen, increases mitochondrial density, increases capillary density, increases fat utilization, increased number of aerobic enzymes, etc. High levels of aerobic capacity/power takes a long time to develop, as with maximal strength. Both aerobic capacity/power and maximal strength are general adaptations that require many different adaptations; hence, these are the adaptations that take the longest to develop and are the longest to go away.

2. High intensity interval-type training increases the strength of the heart, which is necessary for Crossfit-type training. Glycolytic capacity cannot be improved very much, even with training. Also, glycolytic and aerobic adaptations are contradictory, so prolonged glycolytic work takes away from aerobic adaptations. Aerobic adaptations are needed for glycolytic work though in order to buffer metabolic acidosis, as your slow twitch muscle fibers and fast twitch muscle fibers that have become more oxidative are the main buffers. Also, as Lyle insinuated, glycolytic adaptations come and go very quickly (some adaptations within 2-3 weeks or so).

3. Low level athletes do well on traditional periodization plans in which all qualities are developed at once. Once they advance, however, they require concentrated blocks on separate qualities to create further adaptations. You might think that you lose the old adaptations by doing that, but block training or conjugate-sequence training (the real conjugate training...not the one that Louie Simmons promotes...which is more like concurrent training) is organized in a way to maximize all the adaptations in a sequence that maximizes the needed adaptations for the sport. Sometimes, some work is done in maintenance amounts in other blocks. Some qualities last longer than others, which also comes into play in block training.

4. The ideal training plan for an elite CrossFitter would focus on aerobic training and maximal strength training. Of course, it's all relative to the specific athlete. Some people are naturally aerobically gifted. Some may already have high levels of strength or high levels of aerobic development. Muscle endurance and CrossFit metcons would be incorporated later closer towards competitions because they do not take as long to develop. Of course, CrossFit exercises would need to be practiced, whether it be closer toward the competition or earlier, depending on the specific CrossFitter of course.

5. Work capacity is largely aerobic.

hugh driscoll 02-12-2010 11:10 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 738618)
Might not Main Page Crossfit be a more than adequate foundation, even an EXCELLENT foundation of fitness upon which to build your sport-specific skills?

--bingo

Yes, and tomorrow I will do my sport and drills drills drills for six hours. :)

cheers

Evan Anderson 02-12-2010 11:36 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Europa (Post 738710)
Evan, you win the (old) new troll award by a landslide. The most helpful thing that you've posted in your 2+ years as a member is how best to search for weight training equipment on craigslist. Maybe you should hold your opinions until you actually have something of value to add.

- Alex

2+ years? Time math fail.

Sean J Hunter 02-13-2010 12:18 AM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Um..yeah evan...Was gonna answer your questions but youre looking for a fight my friend. So here a different answer.

McDs comments shows an excellent understanding of fitness and a very poor understanding of Crossfit. Period. What he suggests is GREAT for HIS goals.

Regarding "what these principles are". I have a sneaking feeling that's a retoricle question.

S

Evan Anderson 02-13-2010 10:24 AM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Absolutely not looking for a fight. My questions may seem circumspect because that's how you have to ask questions around here to avoid getting your thread locked.

There are a lot of good people here, but not a lot of challenging questions being asked about a methodology (mainpage) that seems haphazard to not just me, but to most experts in the field (hence the Lyle comments).

I really am curious what the CF specific principles are that you refer to.

Nic Kirkland 02-13-2010 10:58 AM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Anderson (Post 738907)
I really am curious what the CF specific principles are that you refer to.

Preparing for the unknown and unknowable. Improved work capacity across broad time and modal domains.

I read the thread referenced by the OP. Folks talk about CFers compared to power lifters and olympic lifters. Yeah, no doubt CFers are not as strong, but I guarantee that if you asked them both to go out tomorrow and run a 5K those muscle bound gym rat types would get smoked. Do those strength types particularly care about running 5K's? I doubt it, but that's the difference. Unless you have specific goals, CF is going to provide you with a truly multi-faceted level of fitness that will have you prepared for whatever life throws at you, as long as it's not running a sub 4 hour marathon or squatting 500 lbs.

CrossFit has gained popularity among a certain sect of the population who is disenchanted with modern ideas about health and wellness and especially in the firefighter/LEO/Military communities because nowhere else is the unknown and unknowable more prevalent than in the demands of those jobs. And performance in the face of that unknown and unknowable is not just a matter of winning a PL competition or setting a PR. It's life or death.

I also liked how in that thread Lyle said any power lifter or olympic lifter could do CF for a couple of weeks and quickly beat elite CFers in performance. Then one of the guys on his forum (who, admittedly, did not sound like a great athlete) talked about how he tried CF for 4 months and constantly felt sore and worn out the entire time, despite scaling the WOD's. But I digress.

Katherine Derbyshire 02-13-2010 11:10 AM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholas Kirkland (Post 738914)
I also liked how in that thread Lyle said any power lifter or olympic lifter could do CF for a couple of weeks and quickly beat elite CFers in performance.

:shrug: Did he have any of his athletes at the regionals last year? How'd they do? Because making a claim like that without proof is just asking to be called on it. (And yes, I know Glassman has made equally wild claims. It's foolish when he does it, too.)

Katherine

Dave Hardy 02-13-2010 12:27 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
I don't believe the that guy is an elite power or weight lifter, he says of his time doing crossfit

Quote:

I began it with a 1 rm deadlift of about 320 lbs. at a bodyweight of 205. After about a month and a half doing the mainpage WOD, I was only able to perform a single of 285.
While Crossfit may be a good way of building general fitness and decent all rounders, I think the problem comes from that "forging elite fitness" banner at the top. I know someone has a product they have to sell but thats always going to be contentious.

Sean J Hunter 02-13-2010 12:31 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Anderson (Post 738907)
Absolutely not looking for a fight. My questions may seem circumspect because that's how you have to ask questions around here to avoid getting your thread locked.

There are a lot of good people here, but not a lot of challenging questions being asked about a methodology (mainpage) that seems haphazard to not just me, but to most experts in the field (hence the Lyle comments).

I really am curious what the CF specific principles are that you refer to.

The ggeneral CF principles, (which BTW are nothing new they've just been packaged in a way that makes them useful)
Here's my thoughts.
1) Steer away from isolationist movements and towards functional movements. I like to call it multi joint vs single joint.

2) Stop isolating energy systems from movements from movement focus (power, speed, regular). I like to call it Multi System

3) Create a better mouse Trap with excellent Bencjmark setting and team workabaility.

4) There are a few semi-orignial ideas that I think are based around the fact that CF is so focused on GPP that it's learning a few new things. One being that doing little to no LSD still enables you to get to very good run times, good enough for Mil / LEO stuff. Bigger return on investment leaving training resource for other areas.

5) Another semi orignal idea is area under the graph priciple for measuring GPP fitness as well the understanding that intensity provides enough ROI for GPP goals and beings a much high ROI comapred to GPP goals then other traditional methods.

I'm not even CF1 cert'd this is just my thoughts from coming from an typical sport oriantated isolationaist back ground.

To answer your question, all CF proggrams use these principles, but different versions are achieving different goals.

I don't beleive CF knocks other methidologies as long as they measurable achieve their goals. I don't hear Bodybuilding knocked alot at all. It's a valid methidology considering the goals.

Where it gets knocked is when people put it on a pedistol as the peak of avg joe fitness.

Hope that answerrs your question

Sean


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