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-   -   Lyle McDonald on Crossfit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=55494)

Jay Ashman 02-17-2010 06:26 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Mauricio, this is all a moot point, because I doubt that Olympic athletes would even look at this as serious....

Too much thinking involved in that for nothing tangible. Present that to the USOC and watch them giggle.

Mauricio Leal 02-17-2010 06:30 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
It could be even more simple though. Have elite decathletes compete at the Games. Have CF Games winners compete at decathlons. This could be formal or informal, but of course it would have to be recorded and the events standardized and judged. Winner is determined by the sum of the margin of victory on their home turf and margin of loss in the other arena (assuming they win/lose where they should). If the score totals are designed to be similar then perhaps a simple summing of event scores would work.

Mauricio Leal 02-17-2010 06:38 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Ashman (Post 741111)
Mauricio, this is all a moot point, because I doubt that Olympic athletes would even look at this as serious....

Too much thinking involved in that for nothing tangible. Present that to the USOC and watch them giggle.

It's funny how people decide which sports should be taken "seriously." In all seriousness, look how serious some of the olympic sports are taken: curling? table tennis? bobsled? Of course real athletes don't waste their time with those right? Their gold medals are probably made of chocolate. :rofl:

Jay Ashman 02-17-2010 06:39 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal (Post 741118)
It's funny how people decide which sports should be taken "seriously." In all seriousness, look how serious some of the olympic sports are taken: curling? table tennis? bobsled? Of course real athletes don't waste their time with those right? Their gold medals are probably made of chocolate. :rofl:

laugh all you want, but they are olympic sports and "Fran" isn't

Rafe Kelley 02-17-2010 07:03 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal (Post 741113)
It could be even more simple though. Have elite decathletes compete at the Games. Have CF Games winners compete at decathlons. This could be formal or informal, but of course it would have to be recorded and the events standardized and judged. Winner is determined by the sum of the margin of victory on their home turf and margin of loss in the other arena (assuming they win/lose where they should). If the score totals are designed to be similar then perhaps a simple summing of event scores would work.

This is ridiculous, you really think elite crossfitter could just pick up the pole vault? The hurdles, high jump, long jump, shot put, javelin these all require immense skill. How many crossfitters can even come close to the performance on the relatively low skill sprint and distance run. Raise your hand if you have sub 11 hundred and can at the same time run 1,500 in under 5 minutes?

The level of skill neccesary for decathalon is order of magnitude above that required in crossfit and the GPP necessary is IMHO higher, even if you think it is lower you can't honestly contend it is much lower. When it comes to the old "almost as well, can't do, better" quote its ridiculous to think a crossfitter can hold a candle to an elite decathalete

Its like saying who is fitter, the crossfit games winner or an NFL wide out, let have the Wide out compete in the games and the games winnner return a kick off in the NFL. Nevermind who wins, the question is whether the CFer lives.

Darrell E. White 02-17-2010 07:12 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron (Post 741056)
Annie is from Iceland and she was the exception to my statement (which is why I said most in my original post). Except for her inexperience with the muscle-ups and everyone else with the sledge event, I don't think any competitor thinks they weren't number 1 because they lacked skills. More likely they didn't do better because they weren't strong enough, didn't have enough endurance, speed, etc. Speal didn't make it because he couldn't deadlift over 400#. Khalipa couldn't win it because he cramped on the run. OPT didn't make it because he couldn't handle the metcon.



No, you missed the point. Athletes develop skills and experience over the course of their career, reaching a prime in mid to late 20's. They don't develop significant amount of endurance, strength, power, or speed between 19 and 28 unless they were untrained novices to begin with. The progression in endurance, strength, power, speed follows a more logarithmic pattern once the person progresses beyond novice and intermediate and approaches advanced/elite.

Usain Bolt, Haile Gebresselasie, Bobby Orr - they were all stars at young ages (18-19) because they had the raw elements of fitness that I mentioned.
Of course they got much better over the course of their career. Why? Experience and skills.

Yup...my bad...Annie is from Iceland.

Afraid you are wrong again on the maturity of the athletes, though. Men do, indeed, become stronger, faster, quicker, etc as they mature, and they reach their PHYSICAL peak beginning around 28. Bobby Orr was a child playing with men when he broke into the NHL. It was his surpassing SKILL that allowed him to compete at 17 or 18.

Darrell E. White 02-17-2010 07:20 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafe Kelley (Post 741133)
This is ridiculous, you really think elite crossfitter could just pick up the pole vault? The hurdles, high jump, long jump, shot put, javelin these all require immense skill. How many crossfitters can even come close to the performance on the relatively low skill sprint and distance run. Raise your hand if you have sub 11 hundred and can at the same time run 1,500 in under 5 minutes?

The level of skill neccesary for decathalon is order of magnitude above that required in crossfit and the GPP necessary is IMHO higher, even if you think it is lower you can't honestly contend it is much lower. When it comes to the old "almost as well, can't do, better" quote its ridiculous to think a crossfitter can hold a candle to an elite decathalete

Its like saying who is fitter, the crossfit games winner or an NFL wide out, let have the Wide out compete in the games and the games winnner return a kick off in the NFL. Nevermind who wins, the question is whether the CFer lives.

I'm actually kinda OK with the content of this post (it's unfortunate that the tone is so dismissive, but...). Best athlete, fittest athlete...I think the elite decathlete has to be the frontrunner in that discussion. In that instance it's probably up to the Crossfitter to prove superiority. All others, including professional basketball and football players I think I'd like to see it. Remember that video of Andy Petranek and one of his other trainers thrashing a couple of NFL guys in a WOD? It's somewhere on the site, and you can be sure that it's on the Crossfit LA site.

CF as a training modality, the base fitness training upon which you build your specialty stuff, is still an unanswered question. The author of the OP's link offers nothing but opinion. Let's see how UC Irvine's athletes do over the next couple of years, or Univ. of San Diego; both have CF S&C coaches.

Shane Skowron 02-17-2010 07:20 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 741136)
Afraid you are wrong again on the maturity of the athletes, though. Men do, indeed, become stronger, faster, quicker, etc as they mature, and they reach their PHYSICAL peak beginning around 28. Bobby Orr was a child playing with men when he broke into the NHL. It was his surpassing SKILL that allowed him to compete at 17 or 18.

Significantly stronger, faster, more enduring, more powerful?

Can you provide some examples with actual data, aside from Lebron James?

Robert D Taylor Jr 02-17-2010 07:23 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 741136)
Yup...my bad...Annie is from Iceland.

Afraid you are wrong again on the maturity of the athletes, though. Men do, indeed, become stronger, faster, quicker, etc as they mature, and they reach their PHYSICAL peak beginning around 28. Bobby Orr was a child playing with men when he broke into the NHL. It was his surpassing SKILL that allowed him to compete at 17 or 18.

Doc,

You'd have to be from New England and of an age to remember Bobby Orr. Roe Dylin FTW;)

Darrell E. White 02-17-2010 07:28 PM

Re: Lyle McDonald on Crossfit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 741144)
Doc,

You'd have to be from New England and of an age to remember Bobby Orr. Roe Dylin FTW;)

Orr, Esposito, Hodge, Bucyk, Green, McKenzie, Sanderson, Cashman...man, that was a fun time to be from NE!


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