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Erik Preston 05-22-2006 06:15 PM

General Question: Where does Krav Maga fit into the MMA/TMA universe?

Who practices? What is it's efficacy in real life situations, as opposed to a Cage Fight?

Also, I remember a few years back, reading about a revolutionary form of hand to hand combat, the teacher being contracted to teach NAVY Seals, etc. Does anyone remember what it was called? It was purported to be devastingly simple, and eliminated "defense" from it's vocabulary. Forgive my memory...

Michael McMahon 05-23-2006 01:56 AM

I know the SEALs use Duane DIeter's CQD system, is that maybe who you are takling about?

Bryan Veis 05-23-2006 04:49 AM


My knowledge is a few years old, but here goes:

In the past, there was no uniform system of hand-to-hand combat training for Navy SEALS. They contracted with several different instructors on a temporary basis. The result was that a number of different "official" courses were marketed to the public.

I have some experience with (*cough* bought the tapes *cough*) two of them. For background, I have third degree black belt in Taekwondo and trained a bit with kickboxers in my youth, but have always felt that there were weaknesses in real-world applications.

The most hyped version was marketed by Jerry Peterson. He called it Hostile Control Systems. (The "official" version was called "SCARS.") It was apparently offered at BUD/S for a limited period of time. It is a take-off from San Soo kung fu, and the "unique" part of the program was what he called autokinematics -- if I hit you in a particular spot, you will react by doing a predictable movement, allowing me to anticipate and set up my next technique. That's a nice theory, but it has its practical limitations. Let's just say that I regret having spent the money.

The other instructor who got into the SEAL H-2-H business was Paul Vunak. His stuff is based on jeet kune do, and in my view is much more practical. One of Vunak's trainees, Frank Cucci, has also marketed a series of tapes. There is no substitute for real instruction, but if you already have a strong background in martial arts, there is some useful knowledge in either Vunak's or Cucci's series. They are, I think, still available from Threat Response Systems. Vunak also markets DVD's in Black Belt Magazine.

I have heard that the SEAL's have taken this in-house now, but I couldn't tell you for sure.

Bryan Veis 05-23-2006 07:23 AM

Just to add to the previous post, Paul Vunak is from the Dan Inosanto branch of JKD and has a strong kali influence from there. Cucci has taken that and added some muay thai to the material he teaches.

Adam Levenson 05-23-2006 07:46 AM

I train at franks gym. Never did seen his tapes, but he is a great hands on instructor in real life.

Erik Preston 05-23-2006 08:17 AM

Yeah, SCARS was it. Just hype, huh?

Where's everybody fall in line with Krav Maga?

Bryan Veis 05-23-2006 08:17 AM

Adam, based on what I saw on his tapes, I can certainly believe that. Is he still in Virgina Beach?

Matthew Nielsen 05-23-2006 11:18 AM

Krav really gets people into the mind set that they can defend themselves, whether they can or not is another matter.

Laura Rucker 05-23-2006 01:09 PM

Paging Jeff and Mikki Martin or Dan Strametz!!!

Who practices? What is it's efficacy in real life situations, as opposed to a Cage Fight?

Brand X is a certified KM training facility. I take a couple of classes a month. It seems pretty darned effective, and as Matt points out it teaches the mindset of at least fighting for survival. I'm sure some folks come out with a false sense of confidence but I think those people would be prone to such in any SD training.

Krav gives real world tools to deal with dangerous situation. Drills in the basic concepts:
Identify the danger, remove the danger, counter attack, get the F outta there. (Again, I am not an expert) I watched the Brand X Black Belt (Kenpo) tests and the way BX blends the Self Defense mindset into all their classes you could really see the application of both Krav and Kenpo principles during the very intense last portion of the test.

Dan Strametz 05-23-2006 01:32 PM

Krav Maga is used to train the Israli Military, quickly and effeciently and then send them back into battle. It takes normal instintive reactions and puts them together with a very aggressive attack. Take the principle of identify the danger, remove the danger then combatives. The goal is to never stop!! Be aggressive! Check out the Brand X site we post the Krav work outs.

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