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-   -   Overhead squats (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=11027)

Steven Stackpole 12-02-2005 04:55 PM

Redid Thursdays WOD, today, Friday Dec 2/05

Proved to myself today that I was capable of OHS much more than I had been. Basically my OHS was being held back by my poor snatch.
When I started experimenting with weightlifting I thought my snatch would progress as fast as my OHS. In other words, I would see a steady increase in my snatch, at the same time seeing an increase in my OHS. It hasnt been that way. Ive snatched as much as 205, but knew I was able to OHS much more than that. I thought, if " I cant snatch it over my head, I dont want to do it" I think I was shortchanging myself.

So today I had a brainwave. I grabbed a couple young turks, got them away from their preacher curls. For the singles 205-210 and 220, I had them hoist it up to their shoulders. From there I got underneath it in a snatch stance and grip, and squatted it with little difficulty. Strangely enough I had never thought of doing it that way before.

So my own strength/crossfit challenge for the next year will be Dan John's bodyweight OHS 15 times.

Giggity giggity giggity

Joe Luckett 12-02-2005 10:11 PM

What about doing a snatch push press from behind the neck? Then you can leave the Turks to their preacher curls.

Steven Stackpole 12-03-2005 04:53 PM

Joe
sorry about the confusion.
The one rack in my gym, isnt wide enough for me to take a snatch grip on the bar inside of it.
So, I have no choice but to get the young turks to help me.


Aaron Markovich 12-03-2005 05:48 PM

I was wondering about the same thing. When I did my OHS's I just set up like I would for a BS then I positioned my hands where they needed to be and did a snatch push press. Not easy but it works. I imagine with heavier weight it might be more difficult to get the weight up this way.

Joe Luckett 12-03-2005 08:31 PM

Steven,

I do what Aaron describes. Of course, I am dealing with embarrassingly light weights for the OHS so I have no problem sliding my hands out into the snatch grip and then doing a push press.

Lincoln Brigham 12-04-2005 11:09 AM

I do what Aaron describes but with up to 80 kilos. I have no problem sliding my hands out. The biggest problem I have with really heavy OHS is that the weight is typically more than I can push press into position, so I end up having to drop-snatch the weight overhead.

John Phipps 12-04-2005 01:11 PM

I am having a hard time as well with the OHS. I can do back squat and front squats but the overhead squat is extremely awkward for me. I have tried twice but still not completed the WOD from Friday Dec 2/05.

I will get out my pvc and keep working on the form and the flexibility. It would be so much easier to rejoin the masses with bench pressing and curling and forget all this functional fitness. :wink:


Paul Siatczynski 12-04-2005 03:16 PM

Lincoln,

What is the ratio between what you can push press from in front compared to from behind? I have tried the technique you've mentioned, but I'm so weak with a wide grip behind my neck that what I can get overhead is the limiting factor in my overhead squat.

Lincoln Brigham 12-04-2005 06:41 PM

I'm not sure. I think I can push press about as much with a behind the neck snatch grip as I can with a jerk grip from in front.

Paul Siatczynski 12-04-2005 08:38 PM

Thanks,
I guess I've got another weak point to overcome.

Veronica Carpenter 12-04-2005 11:33 PM

The way we've always done OHS is as Aaron describes - Snatch grip push press from behind the neck. As far as weight ratios, here are my numbers as an example/reference:

S: 60K
OHS: 70K
CJ:70K
Rack Jerk: 77.5K

Most of the veteran lifters can "hunch up" or push press heavy OHS's. And most can rack jerk more than they can push press with a snatch grip behind the neck.

Aaron Markovich 12-06-2005 06:50 PM

Yes, I'm definitely using much lighter weight...I'm happy just getting 115lbs up. I to would definitely go into a drop snatch once the weight gets heavier.

I have a question though. Does anybody have any recommendations about snatching the weight and then doing OHS's? Do more experienced O lifters do this?

Tom Brose 12-06-2005 08:01 PM

Aaron, what you are talking about is a valid exercise, and has appeared in the WOD before (1 snatch, 5 OHS?). One issue is that the OHS is used to get comfortable in the snatch, and one should theoretically be able to OHS more than a max snatch. This is the case for me, although probably more due to not puling myself down fast enough in the snatch than to the inherent ratios. Anyways, heavy OHS are used to prepare a lifter to snatch more. I usually Push press it up from the BS as well, although some days that is just not happening.

Maybe someday we can get Coach Burgner out here to the nations capital, get fixed up real good. Good to see you posting!

Veronica Carpenter 12-06-2005 09:11 PM

Aaron, OL'ers normally work up to heavy OHS's as has been advised already - from a behind the next snatch grip push press. In all the years I've been lifting, we've never done snatches followed by OHS reps.

Lincoln Brigham 12-07-2005 11:17 AM

Sometimes I'll do a snatch into the OHS, but most of the time if I'm working on improving the OHS I'll start from the rack. Mostly it's because I can OHS more than I can snatch, so I'd have to use less weight than I'd like if I had to snatch the weight overhead first.

Mike Burgener 12-10-2005 08:24 AM

veronica....do you remember aimee anaya? 29 yrs old this year, took 2nd in the 58 kg class at nationals seveal years back...anyway...because of her athletic ability and lack of core strength...i am having her snatch + ohs. she is doing 1 snatch + 3 ohs....i am controlling the wt. taking her up as she can handle more wt. great exercise for developing core strength as well as practicing the efficiency of the snatch.

Veronica Carpenter 12-10-2005 10:20 PM

coach B, I agree it's a great exercise for improving the snatch. But, I'd have to question the effiency of OHS for developing core strength. Aren't there other more efficient ways to strengthen the core without the torque/stress that OHS's put on the wrists?

I've done OHS's in sets of 3-4 reps (excluding the OHS challenge here) They're great for gaining confidence and improving stability when working with heavier weights, but I don't think my wrists could handle the amount of OHS's required to strengthen my core.

But, if it's working for Aimee, I won't argue it's place in her training. :-)

Respectfully,

Veronica

Mike Burgener 12-11-2005 01:16 AM

But, I'd have to question the effiency of OHS for developing core strength.

ah veronica....i will let coach glassman answer this one re the efficency issue. however, i use ohs in all my pe classes, all my athletic classes for the development of core strength. hugs, coach b

Dan MacDougald 12-11-2005 05:32 PM

Per Coach Glassman in issue 36 of the CrossFit Journal,
"The overhead squat is the ultimate core exercise,...
"The overhead squat is to midline control, stability, and balance what the clean and snatch are to power – unsurpassed."

David Wood 12-11-2005 07:47 PM

Maybe it depends on your condition?

I'm still a dilettante . . . so the OHS does wonders for my core strength. Veronica, you're alreaday an accomlished Olympic lifter, I believe? So maybe you're into the range of diminishing returns from that exercise?

Veronica Carpenter 12-11-2005 11:02 PM

Thanks Dan, and David, maybe you're right - it may depend on where your are starting. But, I also know I have lots of room for improvement as far as core strength goes and I don't feel I get it from OHS's.

Coach B, at the gym I belong to, I've taught a few willing members how to OHS, they always remark the next time I see them "Man I'm sore in places I never knew I had muscle!" :-)

Ross Hunt 12-12-2005 09:05 AM

Veronica, have you ever tried overhead squats, turkish get-ups, or guard sit-ups with kettlebells or dumbbells?

The first of these two exercises show up occasionally in Coach B's WOD occasionally. I acclimate quickly to these exercises, but when I first do them after not having done them for a while, the really light up the obliques, and even the abdominals proper to some extent. The unevenness of the load makes a huge difference - especially if you do the overhead squat oly style: Bolt upright, shoulder elevated, torso facing straight forward. Twisting to position both shoulders more symmetrically around the weight seems to substantially alleviate the difficulty of the one-arm overhead squat.

Mike Burgener 12-12-2005 02:05 PM

ross...what are guard sit ups?

veronica....it's probably a cultural thing...hell you are 4 foot nothing to begin with and do not have far to sqt!! ok, ok!!! just kidding!! but in reality the asian population, phillapino's etc all have that genetic gift of great flexibility...that may be too general for some but i am always trying to get my asian kids to lift because of their flexibility.

Ross Hunt 12-13-2005 03:12 PM

Coach B,

A guard sit-up is just the sit-up portion of the turkish get-up, repeated, and done without any assistance from the hand that isn't holding the weight, and, if possible without any momentum or twisting. Mike Mahler and some other KB instructors are big on these for MMA conditioning. This one is supposed to improve your strength in the BJJ guard position.

By the way, Coach, when you assign a total number of box jumps on your WOD is the idea to take a really high box and do sets of low reps, or to take an only somewhat high box (like hip height, or slightly lower) and do higher reps?

Mike Burgener 12-13-2005 09:47 PM

i like my kids to take as high a jump as they can. cody has gone 52" for 5-10 reps....thanks for the explanation.

Ross Hunt 12-14-2005 08:30 AM

Thanks, Coach, will do.


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