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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

Robert Callahan 11-18-2008 11:07 AM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto (Post 449440)
The possible existence of deceptive, exaggerated, or misleading claims by CrossFit HQ are one of the core issues in this discussion. If we can all agree that Glassman seems to make some stuff up

Like I said the range probably should have been 400-600 pound deadlift in two years for the average person. This quote was taken from what? 6 years ago? So in 2002 when CF was still in its infancy Glassman made a slightly exaggerated claim in order to draw attention to his new workout model. I do not find this deceptive or misleading. He does not say that Crossfit will get you stronger than a traditional power lifting program and he does not say crossfit is the best possible thing you should do for maxing out your deadlift. Just that you can get pretty damn strong doing CF. His numbers may have been slightly exaggerated, but deceptive, misleading or just plain made up? Seriously?

George Noble 11-18-2008 11:56 AM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I'll concede that I didn't realise that the 500-750 quote was from 2002. Hopefully GG has more realistic/honest views now. I stand by what I said about bodybuilding and Tim said everything I wanted to in post #261. The only thing I'd like to add is that splits and compound routines are not mutually exclusive. Andy Bolton does a B SQ DL split I believe, and I personally do an upper/lower split with only 4-5 sets of isolation exercises throughout the week (Tate press and hammer curls). Bodybuilders on splits can also do compounds, except they call squat day "leg day" and pullup day "back day."

Shawn Casey 11-18-2008 12:06 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
5 Attachment(s)
Attachment 2901 Attachment 2906 Attachment 2903

Attachment 2904 Attachment 2905





Yeah, you suck at building mass, crossfit.



Anybody seen the before and after picture of Jolie in the crossfit journal? She was anorexic in the "before".

Robert D Taylor Jr 11-18-2008 12:08 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
The FAQs as I recall were designed by Lynne Pitts. Is it possible that she took a hyperbolous remark from Coach and put it in the FAQs? Is it that important, how many electrons have been wasted on this discussion? Why should you move on, Brandon? How about the man lets you advertise for a rival GPP system on his website. You've effectively called him a liar in a variety of ways, critisized his entire program unmercifully, and you're still allowed here. Doesn't that earn him some grace? Apparently not, if there is anybody here who hasn't been overly enthusiastic for something they've invented or discovered, my hat's off. Otherwise take a pill.

Brandon Oto 11-18-2008 12:13 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 449541)
You've effectively called him a liar in a variety of ways, critisized his entire program unmercifully, and you're still allowed here. Doesn't that earn him some grace?

I can't dispense nor am I interested in grace. Only truth.

Are we all in agreement then that official CrossFit sources have made hyperbolic or exaggerated claims, on at least one or both of the points quoted above? That would be a nice bit of progress.

Robert D Taylor Jr 11-18-2008 12:18 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Progress could also be you saying CrossFit is a good GPP model whose founder has different opinions than you do about certain fitness ideas.

Joe Cavazos 11-18-2008 12:27 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Glassman wasn't saying CrossFit will give everyone who does it a 750# Deadlift. It's my interpretation that this was used as an "ideal" number and is to be compared with what would be considered an elite Deadlift by a Powerlifter. Just as very few people, no matter how and how much they train, could ever reach a 950# Deadlift, very few people could reach a 750# Deadlift by doing CrossFit.

The 750# Deadlift is for conceptual purposes. At this point you're only arguing out of the necessity imposed by your general stance on CrossFit.

George Noble 11-18-2008 12:32 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Casey (Post 449538)
pictures

Yeah, you suck at building mass, crossfit.

Anybody seen the before and after picture of Jolie in the crossfit journal? She was anorexic in the "before".

I've never said CrossFit sucks at building mass, that's a strawman. I have said that the statement in the FAQ is ridiculous. Off the top of my head "natural bodybuilders never approach the mass that our athletes do." I'm not big on bodybuilding trivia - the only natural guy I can name off the top of my head is Layne Norton.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=...wQHO7I0j&gbv=2 wfs except from the fact that he's in a thong in most of his pictures, and safesearch is off. So not really wfs.

Well, there you go. It seems that natural bodybuilders (one at least) DO approach the mass of CrossFitters. Who'da thunk it? (And yes, I know you can say Layne is only pretending to be natural, but I can say the same about the biggest CrossFitters.) I don't have a problem with CrossFit as a program, I just think it's a shame that CrossFit.com has the same kind of silly claims I'd expect from Bowflex.com or BodyBuilding.com, because I thought CF was for serious trainees who wouldn't fall for such BS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 449563)
Progress could also be you saying CrossFit is a good GPP model whose founder has different opinions than you do about certain fitness ideas.

For the record, I've recommended CrossFit to lots of people on other forums and in real life who have asked me about Fitness, being lean, etc.. I'm a powerlifter and I know there are a lot of CrossFitters who are stronger than me. I can't remember ever making disparaging comments about the program that weren't reasonable criticism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Cavazos (Post 449571)
The 750# Deadlift is for conceptual purposes. At this point you're only arguing out of the necessity imposed by your general stance on CrossFit.

No, I don't have a general stance on CrossFit, apart from that it's good for GPP. It seems OK to you that the guy whose catchphrase is "evidence based fitness" makes claims about his program that are backed up by... zero evidence? Well, OK there.

Joe Cavazos 11-18-2008 12:42 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
That last bit wasn't directed at you, George. Apologies.

Brandon Oto 11-18-2008 12:44 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Cavazos (Post 449571)
Glassman wasn't saying CrossFit will give everyone who does it a 750# Deadlift. It's my interpretation that this was used as an "ideal" number and is to be compared with what would be considered an elite Deadlift by a Powerlifter. Just as very few people, no matter how and how much they train, could ever reach a 950# Deadlift, very few people could reach a 750# Deadlift by doing CrossFit.

The 750# Deadlift is for conceptual purposes. At this point you're only arguing out of the necessity imposed by your general stance on CrossFit.

Absolutely nobody has ever gone from a 200lb deadlift to a 750lb deadlift in two years using the CrossFit.com WoD. I will publicly offer a $50 finder's fee to anyone who can provide proof or reasonable testimony to knowledge of any such person, anywhere in the ranks of thousands of CrossFitters worldwide, whether present or past, or in the reasonable future, no matter how freakish or gifted.

I assert that this is an outright lie on the part of Greg Glassman. This program will not, as claimed, ever take anybody to a 750lb deadlift. This is not the same as saying it won't take everybody there. It will do so for absolutely nobody.

I stake this publicly and on the penalty of my reputation here, under my full name. My home address and phone number are available on my website.

I'm tired of equivocation and apologetics. Call it unimportant. Call it understandable. But don't call it true. Unless you can prove me wrong.

Door's open.


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