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-   -   Massage made me feel sick, WTF? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=64657)

Stephen Eugene Williams 01-28-2011 04:17 PM

Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
I come to CF from a triathlon and martial arts background. I have been CFing for about 4 months and loving it. I always thought messages were a bunch of BS (only made you think they were doing anything not actually doing anything). But then again I thought crossfit was BS, after all how could Fran a 3 min workout get me in better shape than my 4+ hour tri workouts. So in my fully embracing CF, I started zoning and reading a lot of the journal articles. I came across the series of videos by Kelly Starrett about starching, midline stabilization and maintenance work through massage.

So I gave myself a massage by rolling/laying on balls for the first time. About two hours later, I felt like I had the flu. I read on the web why, toxins ect. What can I do to prevent this in the future? Also how long and how often should I do it? Also how much should it hurt? I have a high pain threshold, so I will keep going as long as I am making improvements, but how do I know when to stop?

Thanks for any info

Sean Dunston 01-28-2011 04:38 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
It has never happened to me, but I understand this can happen from the release of lactic acid from an intense massage.

Treat such an intense massage the same way you treat an intense workout - be sure that you are plenty hydrated before and after the massage.

Katherine Derbyshire 01-28-2011 06:48 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
I'd suggest massaging one area at a time, not the whole body at once. Give the body a chance to get rid of the toxins bit by bit.

You might also want to get a professional massage or two, allowing you to use self-massage for maintenance, rather than trying to repair years of abuse in one go.

Hydration is good.

Katherine

Steven Low 01-28-2011 07:55 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
Not lactic acid.

This effect is not because of toxin release or that other BS. This is a myth. If you're massaging fat mass you are going to force more blood through it, but is that actually going to cause the release of fat from the cells when there is no additional energy need? No. Thus, toxins cannot be the cause of such things. Therefore, there needs to be another explanation (which there is)...


What happens when you massage muscles intensely -- it's like a workout. You're literally loosening up stuff by tearing down the muscles. Deep tissue massage especially to infrequently used muscles can cause pretty intense soreness.

It's the simple response of the immune sytem to repair the damage caused. When there is a lot of damage caused to the muscles by either workouts or manual work to the muscles, there are a lot of prostaglandins and other inflammatory substances released. Increased macrophage and cytokine signalling occurs and it can simulate a flu-like condition. Additionally, you're increasing the amount of metabolic waste exchange from the muscles (NOT lactic acid) which is also inflammatory and needs to be cleaned up by the immune system. Interstitial metabolic waste will either go to the blood stream or will be shunted into the lymphatic system which will activate more strongly as well

Remember, the immune system helps clean up and repair damage from muscles from workouts. This is why working out helps to keep the immune system on its toes and active thus making it more efficient (which is why those who workout tend to have better immunity to illnesses than those who don't). However, after you work out intensely you are more susceptible to being sick because the body diverts the immune system to help heal the damage isntead of fight pathogens.

Anyway, tearing up the muscles a lot like this causes inflammatory condition and can cause flu like symptoms on occasion. If you're new to soft tissue work don't try to do the whole body at once. Do body parts at a time and work your way into it.

YOur body should get used to it in a couple of weeks of continued work (much like soreness goes away after you get used to workouts) so you'll be fine.

Toxins = no
lactic acid = no
Increased cellular permeability leading to stimulation of inflammatory mechanisms + breakdown of muscles and inflammatory repair = yes

Stephen Eugene Williams 01-28-2011 08:23 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
Thanks for all the info

Matt Fargen 01-29-2011 07:04 AM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
Did you really roll that hard? I would think you would have felt a sort of trauma or self injury if that was the cause. Maybe it was a coincidence, possibly another factor like a viral infection, excessive tiredness (days of inadequate sleep) or something bad you'd eaten. Still seems a little mysterious to me.

Steven Low 01-29-2011 10:26 AM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Fargen (Post 897406)
Did you really roll that hard? I would think you would have felt a sort of trauma or self injury if that was the cause. Maybe it was a coincidence, possibly another factor like a viral infection, excessive tiredness (days of inadequate sleep) or something bad you'd eaten. Still seems a little mysterious to me.

Did you read what I wrote...?

It's not another factor

Rene Forestier 01-29-2011 02:04 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
By no means do I want to sound alarmist, but there have been case studies of massage induced rhabdo...I guess its just all part of the continuum.

Matt Fargen 01-29-2011 07:51 PM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 897456)
Did you read what I wrote...?

It's not another factor

Yes, sorry but I was trying to make a different point.

Chad Anderson 01-30-2011 10:48 AM

Re: Massage made me feel sick, WTF?
 
I had the same issue a couple years ago after my first ever rolling session. I come from a powelifting background and was tight as a drum.

The rolling itself wore me out as I did full back and legs that first day. Quads and low back were so tight that the pain had me at tears. The real mistake came when I did not drink enough water and get enough rest the remainder of the day. Felt like I was run over by a truck. When releasing that much bound up muscle and fascia there will be an effect on the body.

Here is the good part! I have never felt run over like that again.


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