CrossFit Discussion Board

CrossFit Discussion Board (http://board.crossfit.com/index.php)
-   Nutrition (http://board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Juice Plus+ Anyone? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=8497)

Taha Mohamedali 11-14-2005 03:48 PM

www.juiceplus.com

I spoke at length with someone about this today and he swears by it. It seems that you could eliminate close to all your multivits and anti-oxidant supplementation with the addition of this stuff. There is some linked journal research too.
Does anyone have any experience to share on this supplement?

Ross Hunt 11-14-2005 04:40 PM

I spoke at length with someone about this today and he swears by it.

So he's on the juice, eh?

:wink:

(Message edited by Orestes122484 on November 14, 2005)

Edward D. Friedman 11-14-2005 06:06 PM

Hi Taha,

IMHO, your friend is doing you a favor. Here's why. ( I'll try to restrain myself from being too long winded. Of course, you'll decide if I succeeded or not.)

My wife, a psychotherapist & nutritionist
(approx. 25 years of practice,) formed a company through which she recomends JP+. www.Wellway.com
(Funny, timing is everything. For the 1st time in 3 years, the site is having some problems tonight, but this should be cleared up tonight or tomorrow.)

My 5 year old twins have eaten JP+ every day for almost their whole life. Of course, I eat it as well, as does my wife.

As I'm sure your friend told you, it's simply the powder made ( proprietary low heat process,) from 17 vine ripened, whole, fresh, raw, fruits, vegetables and gluten-free grains, herbicide, pesticide and heavy-metal free, with only near-trace amounts of sugar & sodium.

It's food, not fractionated supplementation.

With recomendations for 5-9+ servings of fruts and veggies per day, because of the incredible "power" of same, and a population that does not come close, at approx. $1.30 per day, 2 capsules a.m., 2 capsules p.m., JP+ just makes sense. ( I'm always amazed when the guy eating a candy bar, drinking a soda will be "skeptical" of JP+ )

NSA, the parent company, has loads of research, including independent laboratory analysis, ( "what's in it is what they say is in it," ) bio-availability study, ( it confers comparable benefits to actual fruit & veggie consumption,) and much more, plus more on the way.

Enhanced immune system function, combating inflamation & oxidative stress & more, JP+ is great in lots of ways.

The company is really careful to avoid "claims". Who needs FTC & FDA hassles when you're doing a good thing ? JP+ is NOT a drug. It is NOT recomended to treat, cure, etc., any disease or medical condition. The idea is, if one is giving the body what it needs to be optimally healthy it will be, well, you know the rest.

No "throw down your crutches and walk" kind of faith healing magic. The company points to the research.

Having said that, my wife and I have heard some amazing, "this got better", "that went away" "I can't believe this cleared up," and so on, stories, from people we know.

Ultimately, the most powerful testimonial is one's own experience. But even for those who don't experience a "sudden white light transformation", ( I include myself in that list,) it's a convenient, inexpensive way to increase the odds that I'll be the vital, vital, old, old, person I am in the daily process of crafting.

I've never mentioned JP+ here because I didn't want to "pitch" to this community or even appear to do so, but as you did ask Taha, I had to come forward and state my truth rather than sit this one out. BTW, I am known to some here in RL, I'm a lawyer on Long Island in NY, not a cyber-fiction. If you want to chat more, I'll welcome your e-mail @ edfesq@yahoo.com

Stay strong,

Eddie

Andrew Cattermole 11-15-2005 03:00 AM

Still sounds like a pitch.
You could always just eat more fruit and veg.

Gerhard Lavin 11-15-2005 05:27 AM

I never trust any company whoes name ends in "way". There is no magic bullet. On the welcome page of the juiceplus website it even sayd "Eat more fruit and veg". Heed that advice. From the money you save from not buying their supplement you can add lots more greens to your diet.

Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 06:43 AM

Ger

That of course assumes that you will buy the veg, and that you will have the time to eat it. I am a huge fan of getting food from non supplemented sources, but then my schedual allows me to cook my 8-10 meals a day. Most people do not have this option, and something that ensures they are getting sufficent veg and fruit is key.
Fruits and veg are key to muscle maintanance. As they affect the overall PH created by your diet. If your diet is too acidic (from lack of fruit and veg), you will see a breakdown of muscle tissue and an overall calcium loss.

I say if it works for you, take it. Better to get the veg from a supplement then stoically avoiding supplements and being malnurished.

Ross Hunt 11-15-2005 10:23 AM

8-10? Whoa! I've never heard of anyone going over seven. Ian, would you be willing to post your daily meal schedule? Also, how does eating 8-10 meals a day affect your performance as compared to eating 5-6?

Edward D. Friedman 11-15-2005 10:50 AM

Andrew, my intention was to share information. Sorry you felt "pitched". I respect your point of view and your right to it.

Here's mine. It is a fact of life that decisions have costs. In large part, health & fitness decisions are also decisions about how to allocate resources.

If I recall correctly, one CF Journal talked about the financial perspective of investing in a personal garage gym. Lots of folks would question the "necessity" of such an expenditure. Are they "wrong?"

You are right. People "could" eat more fruits and veggies. But do they ? Check here.

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/5ADa...onsumption.htm

Ask a dozen people you care about if they get a variety of quality F&Vs every single day. For those who can't, don't or won't, shouldn't they have access to "JS bands to help with the pull ups ?"

FWIW, I eat tons of F&V. ( I follow a mostly paleo diet.) I think the protective benefits of increased F&V consumption are so great, that it's worth the relatively minimal cost of JP+ for addtional "insurance".

Ger, you are also right. There is no magic bullet. Everything is cumulative. One cigarette won't kill you. One WOD won't make you CrossFit. I like the analogy of droplets of coloring in a large container of water. Initially, the color is totally diluted. At a certain point, you've changed the color of the water.

How's your sleep ? How's your nutrition ? How's your attitude ? How's your activity ? What is the effect of altering any component by a greater or lesser degree ? Optimal wellness, I hope you'd agree, is a dynamic equation, not a static result. ( We are never "done", as long as we're alive.)

To me, JP+ is a tweak in the equation definitely worth making. If you see it otherwise, well, I sincerely hope your "way" :lol: works for you.

BTW, please post what market you can buy the quality and assortment of F&Vs I described in my first post for the cost of daily JP+.

Ian, what you said...Right on !

Eddie

Tom Gilbert 11-15-2005 11:04 AM

I enjoy fruits and vegtables. With just a little effort I buy them at real low prices. I don't enjoy capsules and powders or whatever it is that product is. Interestingly, the online site didn't make it clear exactly what the product is, nor what it costs

Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 11:07 AM

Okay Ross you asked for it so here you are. First some things to note. I am around 160-165lbs, with a 5% body fat level. I walk everywhere. I am doing exercise all day most days... on top of other training, so I am burning close to 5000 calories daily. Also my diet changes depending upon the day of the week, but an average day with exercise looks something like this.

Meal 1 (protein and fat)
Shake-
-1 banana
-1 cup of skim milk
-some spinach
-some nuts
-3 powdered eggs
-some whey protein
-flax seed oil
Green Tea

Meal 2 (P and F)
Omlet (spelling)
-2/3 eggs
-spinach
-1 tomato
-2 egg whites if I got them
-some skim milk
-random spices
Some Carrots
Some nuts
Two pills of fish oil

Meal 3 (P and F)
Can of Tuna
Apple
Spinach Tomato olive oil salad

Meal 4 (workout/recovery Protein and Carbs)
Shake
-1 banana
-1 cup of skim milk
-some spinach
-some nuts
-3 powdered eggs
-some whey protein
-some oats

Meal 5 (P and C)
This varies a lot... though for the sake of the plan we will use today as an example.
Plain yougert
Apple
Oats
Casein/Whey protein

Meal 6 (P and C)
rice
chicken
mushrooms
veg

Meal 7 (P and F)/(P and C)
cottage cheese
toast two pieces
tomato
-or-
tuna
carrots
some fish oil/flax oil

Meal 8 (P and F)
veg
chicken/red meat/tuna/fish
toss in some flax oil

Meal 9
cottage cheese
tomato
spinach
olive oil

Meal 10
a whole bunch of milk
perhaps some cottage cheese and salse

So there you have an average day of eats for me. Admitidly I am not always able to hold to it as time gets in the way, also what makes up those meals varies. Also the fats are a more recent addition... and I have also cut bread out of my diet in the last few weeks and replaceded it with more veg... we are playing with it to see how things go.

As to how it affects my performance... hard to say I have been doing this for years. I find that I always have energy, am lean, have the all important abbs *grin*, and am getting stronger.

Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 11:10 AM

Oh yeah... for those curious as to what I drink.

2-3L Skim Milk
6-8L Water
3 cups green tea

I quit drinking all booze about 5 years ago, and have touched it only once or twice in the past 3.
Those who ask about juice and pop/soda/soft drink can feel free to slap themselves *grin*.

Guest 11-15-2005 11:11 AM

Juice is a super great way to jack your insulin through the roof - elevated insulin = fat storage, no access to fat for energy demands, bad cholesterol, blood pressure, insulin resistance, etc....

Don't be a juicer. Be a chewer.

Kemal Eren 11-15-2005 11:17 AM

geez ian. you say you have time to cook 8-10 meals, walk everywhere, and work out all day? i'm extremely jealous. what do you do?

Brian Hand 11-15-2005 11:30 AM

I like the idea but I see a few problems. One obvious one is you lose all the fiber.

When you juice a fruit or vegetable, how can you be sure the good stuff isn't left behind in the pulp? For example, the antioxidants in berries are largely in the skin.

How much fruits and vegetables can you possibly cram into four capsules? Like about eight raisins worth? Maybe twenty raisins worth if there is some special processing? I'm skeptical that four capsules could even deliver the good stuff from a single serving of nutrient dense produce.

Edward D. Friedman 11-15-2005 11:32 AM

Greg,

Good point. Notwithstanding the product name, it is not a juice. Rather, it is a powder made from a juice keeping the nutritional values intact. As the sugars are removed, it will not create the cascade of negative consequences envisaged by your post.

This is valuable for those who want the benefits of vegetables and especially of fruits without the sugar.


Ryan Heck 11-15-2005 12:10 PM

Just another multilevel marketing product. People "swear by it" so others become dealers so they make money. What's in it that is so revolutionary? Why can I take all my food by pill? Heck, I'm thinking about ditching Crossfit, buying a "Total Gym" like Chuck Norris and eating Juice Plus and Ho Ho's.

This does seem to be a moot discussion on a site like this (none of the testimonials posted pertain to fit folks with good eating habits), we are all interested in total fitness and good nutrition. So my advice, try a blackbox, if you aren't happy with your diet, give them your credit card, get the monthly shipments, see if you feel better.

Here's an interesting link (found at quackwatch.org if that helps).
http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/NSA/juiceplus.html

Roger Harrell 11-15-2005 01:55 PM

Hey don't knock the total gym. It's an excellent ring training device (if you jack one side up a lot and rig it with weights).


Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 04:29 PM

Greg- we could debate juice for months. My biggest problem is with Juice that has sucrose/glucose (the infamous modified corn starch) added to it. Short of making the juice myself it is hard to find any without it. Plus once you make the juice, you lose the fiber.... yada yada. Plus I am really not that in need of insulin spikes...

Kemel-
There are some benefits of going back to school. If you can figure out a way to weasel yourself back in, go for it.

Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 04:34 PM

and Ryan-

Not to be over critical but I would think that discussing supplementing ones vegetable intake really isn't the most bizzare thing in the world on a site of athletes who lead busy lives. Many nutritionalists recommend that people should supplement fatty oils, and protein and this is is never questioned. There seems to be little wrong with supplementing veggies if you are unable to get enough in your diet... especially when so many people eat too few.

Ross Hunt 11-15-2005 05:49 PM

Ian -

You get the gold medal for food consumption. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, going to school rules.

Andrew Cattermole 11-15-2005 06:59 PM

Ed
Yeah like I said your're just trying to sell something,Good luck with that.
I get my fruit and Veg from a Growers market,I'm not really worried about price comparsion for a powder as I enjoy eating/tasting food and cooking food.
Yep no doubt supplements have there place in high level competitive atheletism,something which I am not a part,as for appealing to Health, vitiality etc,
Thanks I'm doing petty well.

Ian Holmes 11-15-2005 08:14 PM

Thanks Ross. Glad to see that all that eating is paying off for something *grin*.

Taha Mohamedali 11-16-2005 02:20 PM

Eddie, Thank you for taking the time to respond thoroughly to my question. I don't feel like you were selling me something and I found the info very useful. The fact is that we can all find pros & cons for every way of eating / supplement / etc...... Consider how a newbie crossfitter who takes his/her daily Multi-vit feels when we tell them to pop 12 fish oil capsules because it will benefit them greatly....


I like the Black box approach and I plan to try juice plus in the coming future as I know I don't get good variety in terms of fruits and veggies, I eat what's convenient and what I like(pears, spinach, broccoli slaw, plums, oranges, tangerines, strawberries, blueberries) I'm sure there are phytonutrients that I'm missing out on.


Eddie (or anyone else who has used juice plus), did you stop your other multi-vit supplementation on starting juice plus? What benefits / changes should I look out for when I start to take it?

Thanks!!!


-Taha

Edward D. Friedman 11-16-2005 06:48 PM

Brian: Skepticism is a great thing. It's protective. Good for you !

Re: Fiber, JP+ is formulated such that it retains fiber from the original constituent fruits, vegetables and gluten-free grains.
Re: Contents & size, if, G-d forbid, the water was removed from you and you were "powdered", how small a container would you fit in ? A soda can ? A pack of cigarettes maybe ? How tiny would an orange be if it was dehydrated and powdered ? Pretty small I'd bet.

Ryan - JP+ refers to it's distribution system as Virtual Franchising. Without being cute about labels, yes, it shares similarities with distribution systems variously referred to as MLM, Network Marketing, Direct Sales, etc. I'd bet you are way too smart to dismiss something only because of the distribution method. Are all retailers honest, or are they all dishonest? Is bartering always a bad idea, or always a good idea ? How about property sale/leasebacks ? I'm sure you'd agree that there are both deceitful and high integrity folks in every single endeavor...doctor, lawyer, indian chief, personal trainers and Virtual Franchisees. IMHO, big, big, mistake to confuse the messenger with the message.

As far as QuackWatch and Dr. Stephen Barrett, addressing where he's coming from is "beyond the scope" of this post. While I doubt you're that interested, JP+ has a position paper on Barrett, if you are interested e-mail me and I'll shoot you a copy. Let me say, that Dr. Barrett dismisses just about every approach to health that is not part of the medical/big pharma worlds. (eg; chiropractic, etc.) While that is his right, conspicuous by it's absence from his writings is anything addressing this: http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/13/12/13.html
or this:
http://www.yourlawyer.com/practice/?...ective%20Drugs
I know, I know, drugs are sold retail with government regulation. Their sale couldn't possibly be wrongly motivated by profit. Moreover, the products couldn't possibly hurt anybody. Now, powdered fruits & vegetables in capsules - that's dangerous ! ( My obvious sarcasm is intended to be humorous, not offensive.)

I wish you well, and please do enjoy the Total Gym and HoHos.

Andrew, may you healthfully chomp & chew on F&Vs for a very, very, very long time. I see JP+ as an option for those not doing as well as you do and those who want to up their F&V intake, even from already high levels, easily.

Taha, I appreciate your open mindedness. Some people do report "improvements" of various sorts after eating JP+ for some time. The company does not endorse any such promotion. As I think I stated above, I myself did not experience any such "white light transformation". ( Although I have heard such accounts from long time personal friends.) I think it's because I already adhere to a good diet and have been blessed with overall good health. The idea behind JP+ is that it's "the next best thing" to F&Vs. Everyone has their own unique bio-chemical reaction to the introduction of increased F&Vs. However, if one accepts the science behind why F&Vs are good, and the science behind why JP+ is good, then the value is in knowing you are doing a good thing.

It reminds me of something like increasing water consumption. Some folks attribute miracles to this simple step. Some folks don't notice any difference in how they feel at all, they just do it because their conclusion after reviewing the level of evidence they are content with is that they believe it's good for them.

If your friend is not giving you the info you are looking for, you are welcome to e-mail me. I think it best not to clog up the CF board more than I already have. If I can help you, I'd be happy to. If you decide JP+ is for you, please do get it from your friend and just consider anything you get from communicating with me a "CF Courtesy".

Eddie

Ian Holmes 11-16-2005 07:49 PM

So how do greens (the product) compare to JP+?

Edward D. Friedman 11-16-2005 08:08 PM

Don't know about Greens, it might be great.
JP+ has a substantial amount of peer reviewed professional journal published research on brand name JP+. In other words, the various studies were done utilizing that very specific product. If you like the results, you should like the product. I believe no other nutritional supplement, while some of them MAY be quite good, has the volume of quality research on that specific product.
JMO, HTH.
Eddie

Larry Lindenman 11-17-2005 06:12 AM

Once again I'll chime in with...stick with the basics and consistancy, before you start supplimenting. Before you buy Juice plus or any other "suppliment", look at what else your throwing in your mouth. Are you:

1. Eating 5 Zone balanced meals a day?
2. Taking a quality fish oil every day?
3. Drinking water as your main beverage?
4. Doing the WOD 3/1 consistantly?
5. Weighing and measuring food?
6. Enhancing recovery by resting, sleep, etc.

If your not doing the above consistantly...you've got some work to do prior to taking Juice plus or any other suppliment for that matter. I go to the the grocery on Sunday and pick out my fruit for the week. I go for variety and look for things I usually don't eat. I will usually have blueberries (frozen) or any frozen berries, mixed with oatmeal in my breakfast, an apple/orange/pear for lunch, strawberries/apple/pear/orange for snack and another piece of fruit for dinner...this is just following the Zone. If you "need" juice +, I'm betting your not on the Zone (unless your a small female), because I have to fill 5 blocks of carbs every meal. I need the carb dense fruit to meet my requirements. Juice plus is a shortcut (unproven IMO. Develop the discipline to eat your 5 Zone balanced meals a day and you WILL see performance and health benefits. There are no excuses for popping pills or powders over eating real food, just like there are no excuses for whimping out on your workouts.

Brad Hirakawa 11-17-2005 07:17 AM

Larry... I agree 100%.

Brian Hand 11-17-2005 01:19 PM

Okay let's think about it. According to the USDA, a 200g serving of apple (approximately one large apple) is 83.9 percent moisture and contains 26.6g of sugar. This leaves 5.6g of "other stuff" in one nice big apple. I don't know how big the capsules are but it seems you'd be hard pressed to fit the dessicated de-sugared remains of one nice big apple in your daily dose of juice plus.

Following the dollars it smells fishy too. I doubt that a company can dry, process, encapsulate, and deliver produce to me cheaper than the grocery store can deliver the same raw produce. If a product only costs $1.30 a day, there can't be that much raw materials (produce) going into it - $1.30 doesn't buy much produce!


James Falkner 11-17-2005 04:04 PM

Larry - isn't your #2 ("taking a fish oil every day") just another supplement? I wouldn't call that sticking with the basics. Eating fish for its healthy oils would be more along the lines of "basic" (assuming you think fish oil is beneficial).


Gerhard Lavin 11-18-2005 04:03 AM

If you don't like the idea of fish oil then add sardines mackerel or herring ( all wild and low heavy metal pollution and usually cheap) and wild salmon (again usually low merciry and without the PCB's of farmed)as well as walnuts (highest Omega 3 content of any nuts)flax seed and hemp seeds.

Larry Lindenman 11-18-2005 05:50 AM

James, I feel pretty confident putting fish oil in the "basic" catagory. I really don't look at it as a suppliment. Especially with the fat profile shift in meat suring modern times. We need the O3 fatty acids. If you take high dose fish oil, you know what I'm talking about. Now, if you guys want to buy fish oil, I'm selling FISH-PLUS! I grind up discarded fish parts in a blender and ship it right out. Robb Wolf and Brad Hirakawa are going to be on the science advisory board and will endorse FISH PLUS!...once I pay them.:wink:

Taha Mohamedali 11-18-2005 03:37 PM

Eddie, chill.
you're not clogging up the messaging boards, you're expressing yourself with good information. If someone doesn't want to read it then they can easily choose not to.

Larry, Brad,

I agree with "sticking to the basics"..... but I don't want to be basic. I want to be elite :-)

so.... to echo what Coach said at the September seminar: " you wouldn't fill your car with 95% gas and 5% water" - getting 100% results requires filling in those little gaps and I think for many of us who already eat well, JP+ might just fill in those gaps. Now its a matter of whether or not I want to invest the money......

Ian Holmes 11-18-2005 04:13 PM

Larry

Will that be in pill form? Or just chunks in a bottle?

Paul Theodorescu 11-18-2005 05:37 PM

"stick with the basics and consistancy, before you start supplimenting"

I think this advice is good for those people who want to reach elite status. That's fine. At the same time, I think it alienates others. A lot of people don't do anything healthy because they get the impression it's all or nothing. So if I party and miss out on sleep I should't be taking supplements that would help my health?

James Falkner 11-18-2005 06:39 PM

I still consider fish oil capsules a "supplement" - you can't grow the capsules, they didn't exist before 1903, and they have to be manufactured - just 'cause Larry takes them and it makes him strong doesn't mean it'll make me strong. Nothing against people who take them, just be advised that not everyone considers them as "basics" just as not everyone considers Juice Plus+! a "basic".

People would have looked at you funny 20 years ago if you told them you took fish oil supplements.

I'm gonna try them tho, thanks to the people on this board that say so many good things about them.

Ryan Heck 11-19-2005 12:24 AM

Anyone tried one of these?

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75qbassamatic.phtml

Gerhard Lavin 11-19-2005 04:51 AM

"People would have looked at you funny 20 years ago if you told them you took fish oil supplements."

I don't think so. My mum was giving me cod liver oil on a spoon 25 years ago and her mother before her. So there pretty tried and trusted. The may have taken them for different reason but they knew they were good for their health. But as I posted before if you like your fish oil less processed eat the whole fish.

Michael Hill 11-19-2005 05:10 AM

"People would have looked at you funny 20 years ago if you told them you took fish oil supplements. "

Not necesarily. Food supplements have been around and popular for a long time. Liver tabs were quite popular around 50 years ago. Why would you do this if you could just eat liver?? Moreover, taking fish / cod liver oil on the spoon has been around for a long time. It has been used for centuries for general health in Nordic countries (in addition to eating a lot of fish). At least as far back as the 1890's they knew it prevented rickets b/c of vitamin D content and this is documented in medical writings.

If we continued this logic, people from less than 100 years ago would look at us funny if we told them how we raise our meat and hydrogenated our fats.


Ian Holmes 11-19-2005 08:52 AM

Being looked at funny really doesn't bother me anymore... I get it all the time.
I eat 8-10 meals a day.
I do crossfit.
I do powerlifting at a university gym
I fire dance.
I do a lot of ring work.
I exercise everywhere.

The funny looks never stop. So really to get them over taking fish oil supplements would really cause no problems for me... plus given that the rest of you are crossfitters I doubt you can claim that you have never gotten a funny look or two *grin...


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.